NO2 on my kart?!

[r_chez_08]

OK, theres this new guy at school who seems pretty cool, same interests as me and stuff.

Anyway, he said he had made NO2 before from ice packs. Dunno quite how but he knows the method.

Since I have a go kart, we figured- why not just as a one off for the lols and a bit of an experiment. Mainly just to say we did Dont really care if it works or not, just something to do!!!

The engine is a 6.5 clone, beefed up a litte (i.e. rod and flywheel, upped compression, bored carb, rejetted, header, mild cam, ratio rockers and a few other bits)

Our first issue was how to compress the NO2. We figured some form of vacuum pump, and pump it into an old fire extinguisher or something?!

Then our issue was how to control the NO2. Maybe a small valve or something by the driver, and then putting a pipe in where the choke lever pivots (i.e. direct feed into the carb.)

Now even if we did manage to get the first two things right, does NO2 require a richer mixture because of the added oxygen? If so, maybe we could rig up a small venturi setup and a fuel source inline the hose supplying the NO2?

Are we completely barmy, or should we go for it?!?
Cheers guys,
Rob

 

[jamyers]

I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to get nitrous oxide out of an ice pack, unless he's talking about some special chemical pack (and then I have my doubts)

That being said, I have a distant cousin who has put nitrous oxide on everything from pickup trucks to snowmobiles to lawnmowers, so it's definately do-able. The "problem" with nitrous is that you've got to the proper amount of additional fuel - too much and it 'floods', too little and it goes lean and burns pistons, valves, etc.

I'd look at some of the automotive kits that use one nozzle assembly for both the nitrous and the fuel, iirc a lot of them are already calibrated. You're also going to need a good fuel pump to ensure the fuel keeps up with the nitrous. And a couple of solenoids to control everything.

 

[OzFab]

I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to get nitrous oxide out of an ice pack, unless he's talking about some special chemical pack (and then I have my doubts)

FYI: Dry ice is NO2 in solid form

Now even if we did manage to get the first two things right, does NO2 require a richer mixture because of the added oxygen? If so, maybe we could rig up a small venturi setup and a fuel source inline the hose supplying the NO2?

Are we completely barmy, or should we go for it?!?
Cheers guys,
Rob

First form chemistry tells you that oxygen makes a flame burn hotter. Technically, you're not adding much more fuel, you're making the existing fuel burn hotter; the nitrogen (which is naturally cold) is there for control so it doesn't burn too hot.

Yes, you need a delivery valve with some sort of calibration adjustment; too much NO2 & it'll "flame out", too little & it won't be as effective.

You're not completely nuts, someone has to be the first
I do, however, see a rod explosion in your future

 

[Doc Sprocket]

FYI: Dry ice is NO2 in solid form

What? NO! Dry ice is CO2!!!

Also- I think you mean N2O, not NO2 You're after Nitrous Oxide, not nitrogen dioxide...

 

[builder bob]

toystory is right about that, you can't put a match in the cloud that comes off dry ice and keep a flame. i think you should put N2O on your engine but i'd test it out on something you don't care about. you could try and by laughing gas on a dentist and hook it to you engine but i don't know if it's pure or not. you could try running some nitro fuel into your engine and then you can run different amounts of boost into the engine pretty easily. it makes engines wicked hot though so you've got to be carfule.

 

[carter]

I thought the point of NO2 was that it cooled down your fuel/air mixture and condensed it so you could get more in the cylinder?

 

[mckutzy]

There is ammonium nitrate in instant cold packs. When the water pack is broken and mixes with water and becomes really cold in seconds.

N2O- Nitous Oxide.
Making nitrous oxide from AN is an extremely dangerous operation. I would suggest not using that to make it at all. Im not too sure what the law says over-yonder, but Im sure that if an accident occurs should an occasion arise, there might be major consequences involved because of the use of AN in this procedure.

IF.....one was to decide to use N2O(besides the warnings/concerns above), use the cartridges designed for a whip cream dispenser. They are (I believe) 8 and 12gm available. You will need a holder with a trigger. These holders are typically used for a micro brewery kit or instant tire inflater, using a co2 cartridges but work with the wipp bulbs aswell.
( Dont quot me on this as this is a dangerous practice, aswell as most motors arent designed for using N2O)


So think about what your going to do first, always wear a helmet, and dont kill yourself by a wayward flying piston or head.

 

[mckutzy]

Yes there are several types of nitrous system, direct injection and (I think they call it)a fogger system for the intercooler on the front of the vehicle.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

FWIW- I have seen crappy little nitrous kits on Evilbay for small engines that use those little whipped cream cartridges.

 

[mckutzy]

They do work, just not well for the amount in it, but more than ever than homebrewing your own N2o.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

I honestly didn't pay much attention to the kit, thinking it was pretty much gimmicky junk. Why? It did not appear to have a provision for increasing fuel delivery at the same time. While I don't know too much about running nitrous, I have been told a million times by folks in the know that adding the nitrous without compensating with fuel causes it to lean out and kill things.

 

[DeathStarr89]

Dry shot on a small engine has been done 1000x, jet the carb richer, rig up a WOT switch and fog away.

Your local speed shop probably does refills and might even sell you a small bottle, jets, lines and nozzles.

extracting nitrous from cold packs is a complete waste of time, you'd be better off using whipped cream canisters.. even then it's cheaper just to get automotive grade in a bottle.

good luck!

 

[landuse]

What? NO! Dry ice is CO2!!!

Also- I think you mean N2O, not NO2 You're after Nitrous Oxide, not nitrogen dioxide...

Darn, you got here before me. Oh well, story of my life......

 

[souperman000]

Darn, you got here before me. Oh well, story of my life......

What do they say? oh, location, location, location.

 

[r_chez_08]

Thanks for all that guys, I am going to thoroughly read it later. Oh and I thought no2 didn't look right!

Cheers,
Rob

 

[Doc Sprocket]

Dry shot on a small engine has been done 1000x, jet the carb richer, rig up a WOT switch and fog away.

It's done, but is it done right? The problem I have with he concept is the fact that it suggests that you're running too rich when not using the nitrous. No?

Again- I don't profess to know squat about the topic. These are just my thoughts.

 

[jamyers]

There is probably more misinformation (and outright lies) out there about nitrous oxide than anything else - and I blame stupid movies like "fast and furious" for much of it.

Think of it as chemical supercharging. "All" nitrous oxide does is add more oxygen, which allows you to add and burn (presumably the correct amount of) more fuel - which makes more cylinder pressure, which = more power. The happy side-benefit of nitrogen (an inert gas) is that it also acts as an expansion agent as it is heated by the combustion, converting heat into pressure.

If you want to do more than push whipped cream around, go to a speed shop and get automotive nitrous. Dental nitrous doesn't have the stink added to it, but it's more expensive and harder to get unless you're a dentist. (because "back in the day", idiot hotrodders would crack open their nitrous bottles to get high and drown/suffocate themselves inside their cars, which is why the automotive stuff stinks nowadays.)

 

[OzFab]

What? NO! Dry ice is CO2!!!

Also- I think you mean N2O, not NO2 You're after Nitrous Oxide, not nitrogen dioxide...

Holy mother! How did I mess that up Musta been still half asleep. Thanks for the correction...

 

[DeathStarr89]

It's done, but is it done right? The problem I have with he concept is the fact that it suggests that you're running too rich when not using the nitrous. No?

Again- I don't profess to know squat about the topic. These are just my thoughts.

The right way would be a wet shot with an electronic timing retard and a window switch. That's quite a bit to put on a kart though.

yes, the problem with running a dry shot becomes that you're running very rich all the time, and you'll make less power when the bottle is empty.

I do quite a bit of OBD1 GM tuning and recently had a guy request a dry nitrous tune for a 75 shot. I pulled about 8 degrees of timing and added quite a bit of fuel. On the bottle it ran great, off it was a total dog.

 

[Doc Sprocket]

The right way would be a wet shot with an electronic timing retard and a window switch. That's quite a bit to put on a kart though.

yes, the problem with running a dry shot becomes that you're running very rich all the time, and you'll make less power when the bottle is empty.

I do quite a bit of OBD1 GM tuning and recently had a guy request a dry nitrous tune for a 75 shot. I pulled about 8 degrees of timing and added quite a bit of fuel. On the bottle it ran great, off it was a total dog.

Then why bother?

Thanks for the clarification!