Looking for help/feedback on mini truck engine swap

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mpilihp

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Hello I know mini trucks is not the focus or even one of the subjects of this forum BUT on the mini truck forum they do not do many engine swaps, there is a couple threads where someone has put in a motor cycle engine but has lost 4WD. This forum it appears dropping a different motor in something is pretty common, specifically a snowmobile motor.

The truck is a Subaru Sambar 660 with 4WD which I want to retain. The engine is toast and the options to rebuild or replace with new are too expensive, I would just junk the truck and buy another better one. With that I think it would be possible to power it with a Yami Genesis motor like the RX1 or the 998 3 cyl unit. Id even go with the 2 cyl as it generates 80hp. Id prefer the RX1 or 998 as used sleds with them are readily available and Id get all needed components and wiring.

My thought (if I can describe it in words and no drawing) is to create a plate that would attach to the tranny with a bracket on the outside of it to mount 2 or three pillow blocks to secure a clutch shaft to. On the side of the plate connecting to the transmission would be the stock Subaru clutch. On the outside I would attach at the end of the shaft the Yami secondary driven clutch. Then there would be a bracket extending out to the motor mount to maintain the distance between Primary and secondary clutches.

The one custom part would be the shaft that the secondary clutch would connect to and connects into the tranny's male connection point. It would require a threaded hole to hold the clutch and on the other end splines to fit into the transmission. I think I can do all of the other modifications other than the shaft.

My concern would be the pressure/force pulling on that custom shaft due to the tension and pull on the belt when the clutches active.

The reason I want to use the variable clutching is the purpose of the truck is to pull a snowmobile grooming drag and having variable drive is a true benefit. Shifting while towing a HEAVY load at slow speeds is tough to try and shift to needed gear without it completely stopping the truck.

Does this sound plausible? Any thought on how much the custom drive shaft would cost?

Thank You for your time, Phil
 

nbaffaro

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I understand that rebuilding the engine or putting a rebuilt engine is going to be expensive. But, I’ve gone down similar roads. It never seems to workout as well as you think it will. I don’t think that any type of belt is going hold up to that amount of HP and weight in this configuration. You would need to hook up the bike motor directly to the existing transmission. There is a GSXR samurai build that had the bike engine/trans connected to the stock transmission of the Sami. Might look for that build. Not on here.
 

Kartorbust

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Most of the snowmobile grooming I've seen done is usually with a Sno-Cat or a smaller UTV with Mattracks on it. The thing about using a snowmobile engine would be that they are high revving with power in the upper end of the rpm curve, not usually ideal for pulling stuff, let alone moving a large vehicle like this. You might be better off finding a car engine, shoehorning and adapting it to the transmission.
 

mpilihp

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I beg to disagree, someone else grooming trails has a 1000cc Polaris Ranger with a full cab and tracks and pulls a drag and it is belt driven. I can get a full sled for $1500 with a good engine, if it doesn't look plausible I could put the sled back together and sell it, if not I can part the sled out and make something back, $500 easily. Remember a sled is extremely hard to move, high resistance compared to a vehicle on wheels. Also, we have a rhino 660 utv with tracks grooming and it easily pulls it and doesn't smoke the belt so I don't think this will be a problem...

~ Phil

I understand that rebuilding the engine or putting a rebuilt engine is going to be expensive. But, I’ve gone down similar roads. It never seems to workout as well as you think it will. I don’t think that any type of belt is going hold up to that amount of HP and weight in this configuration. You would need to hook up the bike motor directly to the existing transmission. There is a GSXR samurai build that had the bike engine/trans connected to the stock transmission of the Sami. Might look for that build. Not on here.


---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 PM ----------

This mini truck isn't large, its longer than a Rhino UTV but that's it, its quite light. Also we have smaller 4ft wide drags we pull with 2 stroke snowmobiles, they are geared down so not to smoke the belt and pull fine. THe mini truck will only towing a drag 5ft wide so not much more, and we pull that 5ft wide drag with a Rhino so I don't think its an issue. Also with the mini truck's transmission I will be able to select different gears to find one that works the best for the speed we need to groom with...


I think a car engine would be too big and too heavy for the truck, the trucks original engine is 660cc, very small. The RX1 engine is a major upgrade in power, maybe even overkill but they can be had cheap.
~ Phil

Most of the snowmobile grooming I've seen done is usually with a Sno-Cat or a smaller UTV with Mattracks on it. The thing about using a snowmobile engine would be that they are high revving with power in the upper end of the rpm curve, not usually ideal for pulling stuff, let alone moving a large vehicle like this. You might be better off finding a car engine, shoehorning and adapting it to the transmission.
 

Denny

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What I think you want to do will work. Those trucks are not much bigger than most side by sides. Why not just machine the input shaft for the transmission so the clutch will fit on. You would only need one support for the outer portion of the input shaft on the transmission then and it would be much more compact. The only other thing I would worry about is would the gearing be too high for a 2 stroke engine but the cvt may be able to compensate for that. Good luck! :thumbsup:


Denny
 

mpilihp

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Hi Denny thanks for the feedback, so the engine I am looking at using the RX1 is a 4 stroke 1000cc so should have more torque than the stock 660 engine.

My concern on only having one support(bearing) for the input shaft is the tension pull of the secondary clutch by the belt toward the engine when the primary clutch closes. Can the transmission handle the pull of the shaft at an angle?

My other concern I just though of is if the subie engine spins in the opposite direction than the RX1, it would mean I need to mount the RX1 backwards and have a jack shaft to get the drive to the other side where the transmission input is. THis would not be bad as I could use the existing snowmobile drive shaft and put a gear on the end that would connect to the transmission and do a chain link to the transmission. THis would take up more space under the bed, IE displace the gas tank for sure but it would mean less tension on the input shaft to the tranny with a chain drive I think.

Also if I did that would I possibly be able to take the shaft from the engine (im assuming its the crank) and cut the crank off the end that goes to the tranny and have a machinist modify the end to allow connecting a gear on it?? THis would seam to be the cheapest solution for machine work.

Thanks

~ Phil
 

mpilihp

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So a remanufactured engine is $2600 plus shipping from Japan and have heard stories of issues with them and no recourse.
https://www.superminitrucks.com/Subaru-Sambar-Parts?product_id=87

A used long block is $1650 and will need to add timing belt and water pump which brings it close to $1800.
http://used-parts-solution.com/suba...ock-engine-en07c-carbureted-type-details.html

A complete rebuild kit is $900 range and then I need to pay someone to do as I have never rebuilt an engine. Then I still have the issue of if something goes wrong the parts are hugely expensive...

So looking to swap in a motor I am familiar with and can get cheap, I just missed an opportunity for a sled for $1k, was out of town...

~ Phil
 

65ShelbyClone

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A complete rebuild kit is $900 range and then I need to pay someone to do as I have never rebuilt an engine.

But you're willing to take on the difficult task of a major swap with an engine that spins the wrong direction?

Again, how is the current engine "toast?" I have more than one reason for asking and at least one is the XY Problem.
 

Kartorbust

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So a remanufactured engine is $2600 plus shipping from Japan and have heard stories of issues with them and no recourse.
https://www.superminitrucks.com/Subaru-Sambar-Parts?product_id=87

A used long block is $1650 and will need to add timing belt and water pump which brings it close to $1800.
http://used-parts-solution.com/suba...ock-engine-en07c-carbureted-type-details.html

A complete rebuild kit is $900 range and then I need to pay someone to do as I have never rebuilt an engine. Then I still have the issue of if something goes wrong the parts are hugely expensive...

So looking to swap in a motor I am familiar with and can get cheap, I just missed an opportunity for a sled for $1k, was out of town...

~ Phil
If you have a reputable shop rebuilding the engine, if something did go wrong with it, if they are worth their salt they would own up to it and offer a warranty or at least get replacement parts to fix the mistake.
 

mpilihp

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But you're willing to take on the difficult task of a major swap with an engine that spins the wrong direction?

Again, how is the current engine "toast?" I have more than one reason for asking and at least one is the XY Problem.

Antifreeze is getting into 2 cylinders, could just be a gasket but could be something else. I also sent the oil off for analysis and it has several different metal compounds in it suggesting the main bearings are gone per analysis, I do not remember the specifics but that was the finding and my mechanic that determined the antifreeze issue and reviewed the analysis suggested replacement or full rebuild.

If the engine spins in the 'wrong' or opposite direction than tranny needs then the engine will need to be rotate 180 deg and a jack shaft used. Ill need to measure to be sure it can all fit if that is the case.

~ Phil
 

Kartorbust

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So either bad/cracked/warped head,l and/or bad gasket. Well the cheapest and really only OEM reman engine I found is $2600, it's just a long block. https://www.superminitrucks.com/Subaru-Sambar-Parts?product_id=87

You'll probably want several bearings supporting the shaft from the engine to the transmission and you'll need some sort of coupler or adapter to mate the shaft to the transmission. Is it an automatic or manual transmission in the mini truck? It may end up being more of a pain to fabricate the new engine in than just getting a long block. It's really up to you.
 

mpilihp

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The transmission is a manual, the shaft to mate to the transmission is the big question to me that I am looking for help with. IE what does it take to provide a machinist what they need to create the shaft? IE I see people on some forums they created a CAD drawing of the custom shaft which is not something I can do.

Thanks ~ Phil
 

Denny

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The input shaft of the transmission will have a ball bearing supporting it in the transmission. you will have to have the shaft machined on a lathe to float the driven clutch and then fit into another bearing which you will use to support the end that would have fit into the pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft. Yes the bearing in the transmission should take the load.


Denny
 
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