Juggernaut clutch problems

[karl]

So I ordered this new fancy clutch to try out,

The rig is a monster moto 212, stock motor , mods are

230-0211 NR Marine grind cam
10.8lb trick springs
4 degrees advance
Re-jet
Better flowing exhaust
Governor turned to 4500rpm

I installed the new clutch, new 203590 belt, and yellow spring in the driven unit, and took off.

Launch was softer, then motor reved up high, hits governor, and the belt is still in low ratio, stuck going slow

So I put the factory red spring back in the driven, and same results, belt wont ramp up more than halfway in the driver. Motor revs up to gov right away, and you go nowhere.

I put the factory 30 series driver back on, same belt, and the bike picks the front tire up on launch and shifts right, and pulls hard to full top speed.

So what Am I doing wrong? Based on what gopowersports said, I was under the impression it would at least work, with a lightly modded engine.

Thoughts?

 

[Hemiwoodworker]

Saw a pic of the inside of one of thoes. Looked like the rollers were on an arm with a spring that retracted them. I would open it up and make sure the rollers could move and snap back to resting position. And make sure all 3 rollers assembly look identical. Might have 1 of the three messed up from the factory i.e. spring backwards siezed up ect.

 

[anickode]

Isn't the juggernaut designed for up to 7500 rpm or something like that?

I haven't seen the inside of one, but the garter springs or whatever the equivalent is in the driver might be too stiff or the weights too light and 4500 rpm just isn't enough to spin the weights out.

 

[karl]

All GPS says is this

This driver is recommended to be used with higher rpm engines. On a stock motor running at 3600 rpm you will not see much difference in performance, running 4000+ rpm is where the Juggernaut shines.

They also only say tested to 8500rpm. But from what I read above, I thought it would at least ramp up at 4500.

I wished they marketed it as it is, and gave some feedback to how to best use their new product

The thing came in a plain box, no instructions or writing at all. Buy it now, ask questions later lol

Ill pull the cover and take a look I guess. Any way to adjust this thing?

 

[karl]

Yuh them some stiff springs

 

[Mr_mcrib212]

---------- Post added at 11:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------

You should try upgrading the motor to at least a stage 1, about 4500 rpm and 9 hp

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 AM ----------

and only 70 bucks

 

[karl]

You should try upgrading the motor to at least a stage 1, about 4500 rpm and 9 hp

?

That is what I did? I am turning 4500rpm already , throwing an air filter on the motor will not make the clutch shift correctly.

If you must refer to builds in stages , I have two "stage 4" builds, the way the power is delivered in both is different, and this clutch is not adjustable.

I want to also try it on a big block Tecumseh, but ill probably sling a rod before it can reach top gear.

And with the clutch shifting way to late, all your torque is being wasted.

That is what I am getting at, I would NOT recommend purchasing one of these, until they make different springs and/or weights , if at all.

Ill test some more, but I dont have much hope.

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

You could try to stretch the springs a little or perhaps remachine the stop where the spring catches. Any way to make them not so tight would help.
I don't really see a way to make heavier weights.

 

[jmaack]

higher rpm is needed.

 

[PullHorse]

The description on GPS says it 'shines' at 4000+ rpm and engages at 2500. Max of 8500. I guess you might be right in the dead zone for it?

 

[karl]

I guess you might be right in the dead zone for it?

Yeah, it seems like your engine needs to make peak torque around 4-5k for the clutch to operate like it should.

Even if your motor revs high enough to get it in top gear, all your torque is wasted, unless your engine is built just right for this clutch, as again , not adjustable.

Or is that where the benefit comes from? People running 5 to 1 gearing on a bike with 20in tires may see an increase in performance,

Cause the clutch is stuck in low range, they can finally get the motor spin up, without that pesky 30 series driver shifting up like it supposed to.

Anyways once I finish up motor mount, ill try it on a motor that makes power up to 5500, running around 13 to 1 compression.

 

[vpd66]

Seems kind of dumb to manufacture a clutch that isn't adjustable. Like you stated, you would have to build your engine to have a power band that the clutch works in. Seems kind of backwards? The springs look replaceable. I wonder why they don't have different stiffness springs available. I wonder if there is a way to lighten the rollers that would help raise the belt sooner in the rpm range.

 

[mckutzy]

Kinda late to the game here...
So if I understand correctly you need heavier weights...

Is there room to add more washers to the cams on the bolts that hold the roller...
Kinda like a bully or other type multi plate racing clutch...

Might be able to add some hammered out lead fishing weights to the bolts...

 

[karl]

Thanks for the input, I still might need to tweak it.

I just wanted to test this driver, vs the regular 30 series driver on a few different engines,
the monster moto 212 being the baseline.

Anyways I refuse to give them $70 for a motor mount, so I made my own.

$5 in angle iron, mint

So the high rpm engines will get tested on the monster moto 80 chassis.

 

[Brianator]

Try removing 1 spring per weight, one at a time until you're down to only one spring per weight, see how it acts then pick what you liked best. It has 2 on each weight and they can't weigh so much that it throws it way out of balance. You bought a high HP, high RPM clutch designed more for racing... it's akin to guys putting Holley 1050's on a street small block and wondering why driveability is suffering

 

[karl]

it's akin to guys putting Holley 1050's on a street small block and wondering why driveability is suffering

No wondering

Just demonstrating a poor product

Holley at least offers different CFM dominator carbs to match their customer's engine needs.

Different race engines can put out peak torque at different points, and with no adjustment, you cant make the clutch work efficiently.

Thanks tho, I thought about removing half the springs, but I did not buy this thing to permantly run on a stock engine.

 

[Brianator]

I wouldn't call it a poor product because it's not working in your application but a poor description by them (2500rpm engagement, obviously not) to push their product. You can always reinstall the springs you remove, I say have at 'er! Others are going to be oversold on this thing and run into your same issues, think of yourself as a pioneer who's experiments and info will help many others. Sure Holley does but so many people have a "bigger is better" mentality and carbs aren't cheap! Lol.

 

[karl]

Well I did a quick test, just because your motor is revving higher, does not mean you are going faster.

With the regular 30 series driver, and yellow spring in the driven, it should really scoot! But I wanted to do a direct comparison.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm84xh87ErI&feature=youtu.be

 

[karl]

You can always reinstall the springs you remove, I say have at 'er!

I dids it , had to add some springs to keep the bushings in place. Ill let it eat tomorrow.

 

[ForceFed86]

What does it do in rhe air free reving. Mine engages way to low for my liking. Around 2500 as they say. By 3000 its fully "closed" im trying to do the opposite basically as I rev to 7k. Any reason your are leavening the governor on?

Be curious to see your results. Wish i could get the sheaves to close up progressively. Seems like both pulleys are maxed out way to quickly.