I finally found the vintage kart I was looking for my EV conversion.

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
After decent success with the Manco Street Kart I was yearning for something that could actually turn on a dime. I only wanted an American Vintage race kart, no metric stuff so that all my existing parts would swap over.

After a couple years of looking I finally caught an 83/84 Coyote Bullet racing kart for $400. It moved under its own power but the brakes were shot. Luckily I kept the MCP brakes from the Manco project and they bolted right in.

For the most part this is the same drivetrain. Same motor and controller but the battery is very different. Out went the 16s 45ah battery from a hybrid Pacifica and in went a custom made 20s6p bank of Molicel p42a 21700s. I configured the packs in a 4s6p, 6s6p, and two 5s6ps so that I can use them in any future ebike projects in either 14s, 15s, 16s, or 20s. I use the same two icharger x8 chargers and I still don't run a BMS. I only use 10ah when I run until I'm fully done for the day.

The gearing this time is 20/70 and with the 25% more volts/rpms this hits 50mph on flats with better acceleration even though I currently have the controller turned down to 150 amps. As is only the battery is warm, the motor and controller are cool to the touch.

I've very pleased with house this turned out. The only things I'm thinking about now are bumping up to 24s and maybe using lipos so I can keep the battery small but still max out the controller's 300 battery amp capacity.

Oh yeah, the brakes are powerful enough to lockup at any speed if that your goal but the motor can overpower full brakes from a standstill so I had to make sure I put the brake cutoff switch in again.

Kart weighs 165lbs ready to run.

 

Attachments

  • _storage_9C33-6BBD_DCIM_Camera_20220609_170454.JPG
    _storage_9C33-6BBD_DCIM_Camera_20220609_170454.JPG
    1.3 MB · Views: 10
  • IMG_4987.jpg
    IMG_4987.jpg
    1.1 MB · Views: 9
  • IMG_4981.jpg
    IMG_4981.jpg
    1.7 MB · Views: 10
  • IMG_4980.jpg
    IMG_4980.jpg
    2.2 MB · Views: 10
  • IMG_4979.jpg
    IMG_4979.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 10
  • IMG_4978.jpg
    IMG_4978.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 9
  • IMG_4989.jpg
    IMG_4989.jpg
    2 MB · Views: 10
  • IMG_4986.jpg
    IMG_4986.jpg
    2.3 MB · Views: 11
Last edited:

EpsilonZero

...still cheaper than a boat!
Messages
329
Reaction score
101
You're still running the ME1611 (ME1012 variant)? I have an ME1114 on the way, which I think is basically that motor but with a sine/cosine speed sensor instead of halls. I'm going to run it full amperage though with a KLS72701-8080NPS (700A) controller.
 

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
You're still running the ME1611 (ME1012 variant)? I have an ME1114 on the way, which I think is basically that motor but with a sine/cosine speed sensor instead of halls. I'm going to run it full amperage though with a KLS72701-8080NPS (700A) controller.

Yup, same motor and you are correct about the ME1114 being the Sine/Cosine version.

1663588671445.png
 

Attachments

  • ME1611 PMAC Motor Specification.pdf
    772.2 KB · Views: 3
Last edited:

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
John Fiorenza (president of Motenergy himself) sold the ME1611 to me as being a direct replacement for the ME1012. All stated with my emailing customer service one night asking about the fan on the Me1012.

FYI. Russ Barrow on youtube is running the ME1012 at crazy high RPMs with much success, I had discussions with him on Facebook a while back.



This is his FB page. He recently split the stators on a ME1304 and runs dual controllers on the one motor. He's also up to 32S now (~128v)

 
Last edited:

EpsilonZero

...still cheaper than a boat!
Messages
329
Reaction score
101
Yup, same motor and you are correct about the ME1114 being the Sine/Cosine version.

View attachment 134377
The president of Motenergy sold the ME1611 to me as being a direct replacement for the ME1012. Russ is running the ME1012 at crazy high RPMs with much success, I've had discussions with him on Facebook a while back.

Where did you get the PDF with motor details? Do you know how high of RPMs he has been running the motor? I've run the ME1717 and ME1719s up to 6000-6500 max. I actually saw that video and thought the power looked great, not realizing I would be buying basically the same motor later on.
 

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
Where did you get the PDF with motor details? Do you know how high of RPMs he has been running the motor? I've run the ME1717 and ME1719s up to 6000-6500 max. I actually saw that video and thought the power looked great, not realizing I would be buying basically the same motor later on.
From the President during our email exchanges. He introduced me to the ME1611. I don’t think they were ever sold to consumers. He had some for sale for $500 each and best I can tell these were meant for Zero Motorcycles but maybe they used something else.

Russ goes up to 8k rpm last I talked to him.
 
Last edited:

EpsilonZero

...still cheaper than a boat!
Messages
329
Reaction score
101
I see the motor is rated to not explode at 8k RPM, so that is good. I'm not planning on pushing beyond 6k. Any idea what kind of heat it is generating at those RPMs? What was the difference between the ME1611 and the ME1012?
 

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
This is what he told me back then.

I don’t think RPMs cause heat, it’s the load.
 

Attachments

  • DD2CA313-657E-47E9-B5B3-93F3FE6F2CA1.jpeg
    DD2CA313-657E-47E9-B5B3-93F3FE6F2CA1.jpeg
    210.2 KB · Views: 3

EpsilonZero

...still cheaper than a boat!
Messages
329
Reaction score
101
I guess I should rephrase and say I am more concerned with the bearings handling the RPMs and not boiling away the grease from the friction or otherwise failing rather than the overall heat. I looked them up and it seems like they are good to 7700RPM. I'm not sure why Motenergy recommends 5000rpm max.

I noticed a lot of the fan-cooled motors have been advertised with a "NEW bi-direction fan". The ME1114 has that advertised as well. That may have been the newest innovation when they came up with the ME1611 and they just pushed it out to a lot of existing motors since it worked well.
 

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
I guess I should rephrase and say I am more concerned with the bearings handling the RPMs and not boiling away the grease from the friction or otherwise failing rather than the overall heat. I looked them up and it seems like they are good to 7700RPM. I'm not sure why Motenergy recommends 5000rpm max.

I noticed a lot of the fan-cooled motors have been advertised with a "NEW bi-direction fan". The ME1114 has that advertised as well. That may have been the newest innovation when they came up with the ME1611 and they just pushed it out to a lot of existing motors since it worked well.

I bet the bearings can be swapped for something better if that is a concern. That said, I'd contact Motenergy and ask them.
 

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
I tried something today to see how much my battery was limiting my torque. I put 20 cells of 5AH graphene lipos in parallel with my 20s6p 21700 lithium cells. Then I cranked the controller up to 100% and took it for a spin for 4 hard minutes.

this time the battery was ambient, Motor warm, and controller warmer. My 4 gauge phase wires were also the warmest they have been.
The acceleration difference was not noticeable enough to be worth the trouble of charging and matching all these cells. I also believe I tripped the overcurrent protection in the controller.
So the next step is to order 26 more p42a cells and make a 2nd 4s6p pack so I can run 24s6p.

this will up the motor RPM but I will drop the motor sprocket down by the same amount so 50 mph remains my top speed but I get to benefit from the increased torque will keeping the controller current turned down to protect the 21700 pack.

another point is my motor is more than my controller can handle but that’s okay because the motor was “inexpensive”.
 

Attachments

  • 3DB9290A-45DC-46AB-B422-F05D2499AF91.jpeg
    3DB9290A-45DC-46AB-B422-F05D2499AF91.jpeg
    3.8 MB · Views: 3
  • 354E501D-F88E-4DEE-B80D-1FC50B6CACDC.png
    354E501D-F88E-4DEE-B80D-1FC50B6CACDC.png
    419.4 KB · Views: 3

EpsilonZero

...still cheaper than a boat!
Messages
329
Reaction score
101
Does your controller have a dedicated over-current error code? I think the closest my three Kelly models have are "internal" faults. What kind of voltage sag were you seeing? If you're still using that KLS8080H 96500 controller, it will try to supply 500A if you don't limit it. The difference between 150A max and 500A max should be very obvious.
 

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
Does your controller have a dedicated over-current error code? I think the closest my three Kelly models have are "internal" faults. What kind of voltage sag were you seeing? If you're still using that KLS8080H 96500 controller, it will try to supply 500A if you don't limit it. The difference between 150A max and 500A max should be very obvious.

It comes up as a “reset error”. While driving there are no disruptions. Just the beeping. Still have full throttle and same top speed.
 

Bmr4Karts

Member
Messages
200
Reaction score
5
Good news, bad news.

Good news is the kart is much better on 96v with the higher gear ratio. Now running 15/64. So similar top speed but way more torque. In the video I'm only running the battery current max at 60% in the controller which is about 300 amps.

Bad news is the 4s pack I built and added overheated due to being sandwiched between two other packs. It made it until I got home and then died.

This was also the first time I've ever popped the 150 amp circuit breaker which happened when I was drifting in the cul-de-sac. That's right, I can now for real drift with my very wide and sticky rubber tires and they were screaming too.

Again, this was with the controller at 60% battery current. So now I'm going to bite the bullet and just get a eight 6s 10000mah lipos and run those packs as 4s2p for ~96v 20Ah. With that I'll be able to crank the battery current up to 100% and max out the controller.

 
Last edited:

redflash

Active member
Messages
339
Reaction score
172
No wonder alexander graham bell checked out ! No wonder the dodge brothers were able to make a living..... too damn much thinkin goin on here.
Gasoline will save the world ! amen
 

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
3,399
Reaction score
323
Location
Toledo, Ohio
No wonder alexander graham bell checked out ! No wonder the dodge brothers were able to make a living..... too damn much thinkin goin on here.
Gasoline will save the world ! amen
Um...what ya gonna do when the gas is gone? :smiley_omg:
...or scarce & going for ~$25.00 -$50.00 per gal. :devil2:

Ima gonna re-charge my kart(s) with solar, wind, geothermal, Nuclear (heck, any renewal energy source) :thumbsup:
...& keep on truckin' :auto:
 

redflash

Active member
Messages
339
Reaction score
172
Hey functional...I'm 76 years old....I will have gas available for the rest of my life. My poor grandkids will be forced to drive those humming pieces of crap that , Jeez don't even have mufflers. What kinda car is that ? Tree huggers will never enjoy life, because there ain't no such thing as ozone !
 
Top