Dingo Rebuild

[RangerRob007]

Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum and looking for some help/advice on my son's go-kart. His mom bought it for him and no one thought to look it over very closely for safety & driveability.

This is (I think) a Manco Dingo 285 or 286 with a Briggs & Straton 6.5hp motor on it. It has what looks to be riding mower back wheels & tires. Overall - it drives like crap. I've addressed numerous issues thus far that I can do myself, or figure out, but I'm lost on a few things.

1. I think the belt may be too long. Any ideas on whether or not this thing is supposed to have THIS MUCH slack???

2. The live axle going through the back end of the kart has metal 'plumbing pipe' between the frame and inside of the hub, with 2 washers on the inside of the hub as well. That pic is here:

3. The camber in the front is really bad, especially on the 'passenger side of the kart. The front suspension looks like a hodge-podge of parts anyhow, and I don't know what to do about that. Those pics are here:

Main concerns: Clutch not engaging properly (it's been cleaned and 'appears' to be 'normal'. Not sure about the belt size. Rear tire size, front suspension/camber/steering linkage.

The front end wobbles - A LOT The back end wobbles too, but not as bad as the front.

I'm open to thoughts and suggestions on how to fix this thing, short of throwing it in the garbage and starting over. The thing just isn't really safe, and I'd like it to be, without throwing hundreds/thousands of dollars at this thing to make it right.

Thanks!

 

[landuse]

Welcome!!! That belt definitely looks too long. Measure the center to center distance between driver and driven and then have a look at this chart for the correct belt

https://www.gokartsupply.com/tcbelts.htm

 

[Nosandwich]

Unfortunately, he's only got 6 1/2" center to center. He'll have to change that.

 

[itsid]

Hi and welcome..

Yes the tyres are a hair too big (originally they had 18" wheels) so it'll loose some torque on takeoff, for a lightweight passenger (small kids) that shouldn't be much of an issue though,
for an adult however I'd go back to 18" or adjust the gear ratio.

the belt certainly is too long, and msot likely not even a TC belt at all but an automotive v-belt or something...
As landuse said already: buy a comet belt matching your center to center distance.

talking of which, as Nosandwich said: your CtC distance is a bit too small for the shortest belt, but the engine sits on a sliding plate that holds the jackshaft (and thus the driven pulley)
so you can likely just loosen the bolts and pull the pulley back to adjust the distance.

that set then is positioned to take the slack out of the chain on the chassis' engine mounting plate..

the plumbing pipe needs to be 3 9/16" long
the kart originally had spacers (pipe essentially) and over the time one got lost or was broken and has been replaced.. it's not too beautiful with the threading I admit, but it's better than not having a spacer at all.

The Manco micro suspension looks correct to me (well both washer go between the spindle and the spring but none of these setups stops the spring from rotating anyways)
even the brackets look to be okay (they do indeed have a weird bent in the center)
BUT the kingpin itself looks to be crooked (the bolt; might be a fisheye effect of the camera or my astigmatism ) I think it needs to be replaced.

if your camber is out, start with the spindle,
check that it's axle is still straight (just compare both sides, if they're identical you'll be good)
then the bushing-surfaces, if it's wallowed out or still good.. kingpin (grade 8 please), then measure the chassis;
and carefully bend it back (again, most important part is that both sides are equal doesn't matter if you end up with 8° or 10° really)

the steering is as sophisticated as you see on your kart
if it has too much play, maybe the tie rod ends are worn out and need to be replaced.
balls should rotate but not move, tie rod ends come in pairs
(one right threaded and one left threaded) so that their length can be adjusted when installed.
make sure the tie rods are straight and that's already all there is to it.

OH, once you have the new belt, at the very least clean the sheaves to a shiny surface finish (no burrs, no rust... baby bum smooth..)
personally I'd to a full maintenance on the torque converter, just to have that out of my mind and to know that it wont fail on me the next chance it gets

if you need more details, just ask (this post got very long very quickly already )

'sid

 

[Functional Artist]

That's a nice kart, It just needs a little love

What kind of wobble?
...a something is loose wobble (loose bolts or bad bearings)
...or a wheel wobble (like a bent rim or bad tire wobble?

Put 'er up on blocks
...make sure everything is tight (not wobbly)
...but, still moves freely (not stiff or binding)

If everything is tight but free
..spin each wheel
...& watch for wobbles

Your front spindle mounts look kinda beat up a bit but, mostly just as they came from the factory

For front wheel alignment
...I use a couple of 2 x 4's to "square up" the front wheels with the rear wheels
...then toe each side just in a little bit

Here is a video I did when working on my Dingo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU_pBr0jwM4&index=4&list=PLoL6eIYWPO_ldEXj0hJX9nWGrLI8KmC7q

 

[RangerRob007]

Hey all,



Thanks for the advice so far!!! Itsid, and Functional Artist - tons of great info between you both! Thanks so much!!! It's been an interesting evening with lots of weird discoveries.

I started by taking the front end apart. As suspected/mentioned above, the tie rod ends are loose and in need of replacement.

The steering 'C' brackets were tightened down WAAYYY too tight, and I think that's why they were bent the way they are/were.

I also figured out that they over compensated for a lot of geometry issues by just putting more, and more, and more washers in the front suspension (20+ washers between the two front spindles and rim/tires.

There were also broken springs in the mix, which probably didn't help matters!

The front rims/tires are also really interesting - in that they don't fit the spindle, or the spindle doesn't fit them. I don't know which one is wrong, but I'm guessing the rim/tire setup for the front end. There's a 2/75" offset between the hub and the outer edge of the tire, therefore, the spindle doesn't sit in there properly. This is part of the 20+ washers seen above!!

Check it out:

Between www.gokartsupply.com and www.gopowersports.com, I think I've got the front end covered (hopefully).

I've also run into some weirdness in the driveline.

The asymmetric clutch and driven pulley don't line up - as in - they aren't straight. I actually noticed that the other day when a friend of mine was helping me work on it, but forgot to mention it in my first post.

See pics here:

As mentioned above, the belt is too long, but it IS a Manco belt. I suspect I may need to get the shorter one, but I don't get why they don't line up.

I'm also missing the brass bushing for 3/4" drives that is on https://www.gokartsupply.com/asymapp.htm - and I don't know if I need that, or not???

Okay, next is the clutch itself. I don't know if it's supposed to look like this, or not - mainly the wear on the clutch assembly itself.

And finally, there's the missing black insert buttons for the driven pulley. Are these a 'must have'???

Alright, that's all my questions for tonight!

Thanks for the help guys, and I look forward to your replies!!!

Rob

---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 PM ----------

Unfortunately, he's only got 6 1/2" center to center. He'll have to change that.

Hey Nosandwich,
I can move the motor back almost an inch. The problem is that I don't have the length in the chain to do so. It's pretty much maxed out as it is.

Thoughts?

 

[itsid]

well let's start at the front..

the spindles did have some spacers to locate the wheel properly (likely broken/lost as the rear spacer was.. but instead of making a new one PO just added a bunch of washers)
IIRC the front spacer was 3/4" in length (5/8" ID)

the 5959 is likely the correct belt, someone messed up the jackshaft mount,
that'd explain not only the misalignment but also the center to center spacing..

chances are he lost/replaced the jackshaft mount with one of a different kart that "looks identical" but isn't in dimensions
hard to tell from the pics..
but yes, the belt should run straight and sit much tighter between the sheaves!

One thing I do notive however:
your driven unit needs attention!
the belt should sit at the outermost edge (pushed up by the spring and sheaves)
it doesn't so either the belt is worn way beyond what I've seen so far, OR the spring lost it's power.
most likely because the rubber buttons failed and the spring tension collapsed,
or PO disassembled the driven unit and forgot to preload the spring on reassembly...
IDK;
BUT: take the complete TC off and do a full maintenance ..
disassemble, clean (baby smooth) no grease but the inside of the driver (dry lube ONLY! on weights, bell and the clover insert)
nothing else needs lubrication, a tiny whiff of drylube on the centerpost of the driven doesn't harm, but do not get anywhere near the sheaves with lubrication of any kind!

your weights quite frankly look worn out.. if you cannot feel the wear mark with your fingernail just get a replacement (mfgsupply.com has all the parts you need for example, gokartsupply.com does too as well as many others...)

Yes, you need all the buttons, and a good spring (if it's no longer perfectly round and straight, replace it.)
the garter springs in your driver should be replaced with your weights as well.

You can go cheap and buy a chinese clone series 30 TC off ebay .. much cheaper than individual parts.
then save your original comet TC for a later day to restore it to it's previous glory!
(it's worth it IMHO!)

here's some manual for your kart (should be fairly accurate in terms of parts and such except for the engine maybe)
https://americanlandmaster.com/pdfs/gokarts-minibikes/model-285/285_operatorsmanual.pdf

'sid

PS Brabus? *giggle*

 

[RangerRob007]

Itsid,

I'll post a pic of the jackshaft tonight. Meant to last night but forgot. Thanks again for the extremely useful info.

As this a hobby for my son (and now me by helping him work on it), I'll probably get some new parts from gokartsupply; specifically - the TC and driver for the rear, and the front suspsension components.

If the jackshaft mount is messed up, I may look into that as well.

Thanks again!

---------- Post added at 09:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

Also, I don't know why this site turns my pics sideways. I had them right side up when I loaded them in.

Any idea how to fix that?

 

[itsid]

yep, I do.. in fact..
a picture taken in the wrong orientation with a phone, is marked as such
(portrait or landscape flag set) and worse it can be locked incorrectly if you do not allow screen rotation on said device.
That flag then messes with the rotation set (0,90,180,270°) by "incomplete" image software (like early picasa)
Funny enough: if you rotate the image using windows preview on your pc instead,
it should reset the orientation and rotation flags correctly, so does photoshop of course or freeware like GIMP.

'sid

 

[RangerRob007]

yep, I do.. in fact..
a picture taken in the wrong orientation with a phone, is marked as such
(portrait or landscape flag set) and worse it can be locked incorrectly if you do not allow screen rotation on said device.
That flag then messes with the rotation set (0,90,180,270°) by "incomplete" image software (like early picasa)
Funny enough: if you rotate the image using windows preview on your pc instead,
it should reset the orientation and rotation flags correctly, so does photoshop of course or freeware like GIMP.

'sid

I guess that's what I was trying to say - is that they were taken at the correct angle on my phone, and looked correct on my PC last night, but when I loaded them on here, they turned. I was trying to figure out how to properly orient them on here.

Rob

 

[itsid]

hmm that'd be indeed odd..
IF they were taken in the correct orientation (with screen rotation lock not engaged),
they should have a portrait flag and a 0° rotation size shows up as smaller x bigger value.
BTW I'm not talking about the tiny preview on the side panel..
I'm talking about the icon in the explorer window (since that reads the orientation flag first IIRC)

Anyways.. when in doubt:
check the exif flags (if you do not have a tool that does this.. use this website)
http://exif.regex.info/exif.cgi

I can't tell what exact settings the rescaler for our albums use to be honest..
but it technically works if both is set correctly.. at least tons of images show up correctly..
unfortunately it strips all exif for security reasons (it can contain camera model, owner, and exact location etc.) so it's not helping with the debugging once the image is resized.

'sid

 

[RangerRob007]

Sid,

Thanks for the info about the photos. Nice to chat with people who are smart on this kinda stuff.

So we ordered parts for the front suspension. Don't know when they'll be here, but will post pics once they're here.

We got tie rods, tie rod ends, and springs to start with. There's going to be more, but wanted to address those things for now.

I'm hoping I can re-use the spindles, as they looked to be in decent shape once I cleaned them up.

We're probably going to order new rims & tires all the way around to get something made for a kart instead of a riding mower. There's about 2 3/4" of offset on the front rims (from the hub to the egde of the tire) and one of the rims has a missing/broken piece because it hit the spindle at some point.

For tires, I'm thinking something along these lines for the front:

13x5-6 CLEAT TIRE ASSEMBLY 2-PACK Or these 410/350-6 Stud Tire Assembly 2-Pack

For back tires, I was thinking of something like these:

Build Your Own Tire & Wheel Assembly - 8" and using the following parts:

Live axle wheel - 8"
16-650-8 cleat tires - or - 18-950-8 cleat tires.

Also, I took a pic of the jack shaft as promised. I don't know how they are supposed to look (100%), so I'm hoping you have a little more insight on this.

So looking at the alignment in the back - can I do something with the jack shaft to move the sprocket closer to the engine, and same for the drive axle that would put the driven pulley in alignment with the TC?

Thanks for the continued help Sid! It's cool that stuff like go karts is a universal language (to some degree) and that people do this all over the world!

 

[itsid]

Manco split rims are nice, keep them around.. maybe you find a half to replace the broken one.
and them being 6"-ers they're kinda rare...

It appears to be the wrong sprocket on the TC to me.. OR there's a locking collar behind the sprocket that doesn't belong there. a .25" spacer yes, a .5" locking collar..nope!

Frankly I cannot tell you the exact dimensions it should have
(or spacing in relation to the chassis engine or whatnot)
if I'm not mistaking that is the correct part: https://www.ebay.com/itm/162936692652
looks slightly different to me, not?
Anyways, maybe Grant can chime in to tell us *shrugs*

but let's attack that fro another perspective..
if the PTO of the engine is too short to move the driver clutch further out to align the belt, and you cannot move the engine to the left either...
the driven clutch HAS to move in a bit to align the belt...
if you can do so by removing the locking collar or swapping a B-type sprocket against a C-type sprocket on the jackshaft (it's supposed to be a type C anyways)
without the chain hitting the chassis, then perfect, you're done!
All needed now is to realign the axle sprocekt with the JS sprocket for a straight chain.
Jack up the rear, loosen the sprocket hub, rotate the driven pulley by hand a couple of times
and the chain should pull the axle sprocket straight.

if the chain IS hitting the chassis however you need to get a bit creative I'm afraid
Either you need to make a PTO extension (a keyed 3/4" shaft drilled to take a through bolt and cut to length) and a spacer to realign the driver by moving it further out.
Or refab the jackshaft mount to allow for a better clearance.

'sid

 

[Whitetrashrocker]

What about moving the whole chain assembly to the other side?

This will eliminate the spacer under the drive clutch and then the driven can be set in line.

Move JS sprocket and alighn the axle sprocket to the JS

 

[RangerRob007]

Whitetrashrocker: I can't move the chain assembly to the other side. The motor is in the way. Good idea though! Thanks!

Sid: Messed with the alignment some over the weekend, but not a lot as we had a lot of family stuff going on. Plan on working on it this week. Definitely going to have to move some stuff around though. The engine output shaft is too short to move the TC further out, so I'm going to have to move the main sprocket a bit closer to the chassis.

Also, there are parts on order, but it may take a bit to get them in, so forward progress from here may be slow. I'll keep ya updated, and I appreciate all the help thusfar!

 

[RangerRob007]

Hey guys,

So it's been a couple months since my last post. We decided to pretty much re-build the entire kart, and it's been (still is) a slow process. We're sanding it now and have replaced the crank case gasket and front suspension.

He wants to paint the entire kart and part of the engine. Just wanted to let you know we're still working on it, but life gets in the way.

 

[landuse]

.......but life gets in the way.

It happens. I look forward to seeing your progress

 

[RangerRob007]

Status Update

Hey everyone!

Wanted to give a quick update:

My son and I decided to re-build pretty much the entire kart, and give it a fresh new look, so this has now turned into a 'build thread'.

Work done so far:

• Kart disassembled and prepped for paint (hopefully this weekend).

• Same for the motor (prepped for paint).

• Also replaced the leaking (and mostly dissolved) crankcase gasket.

• Welded on a plate for a battery, and another for light switches (we're mounting lights on the Dingo!)

My other thread (Welding Assistance) was solved by a friend of mine and I taking the kart over to the Auto Skills Center at Fort Belvoir, Virginia where we could do the work ourselves. The upside of that little adventure is that I learned how to stick (Arc) weld because their MIG welder was down. The downside of that adventure is that some of the welds look like garbage. But, they'll hold what I need them to, and it's a go kart, so...no big deal!

We've ordered / received new parts for most of the kart as well, including:

• Seat

• Steering wheel

• Tie rods / tie rod ends

• Front springs

• Throttle cable

• Rims & tires

• Exhaust - J-pipe with no muffler

• Axle bearings & lock collars

• Axle bearing carriers

• Jackshaft sprocket

• Belt

• Driven pulley

• 30 series Comet torque converter with brass ring for the belt

• (1) 12" light bar and (1) 6" light bar

• Tail lights

• Fuel line

• Fuel filter

• Battery

• Battery charger

• Toggle switches (for the lights)

• Ground block & power distribution block for the lights

I also just noticed the brake band is pretty worn out, so I'll probably end up replacing it once we make some progress on reassemmbly and paint.

What I've been able to salvage from the original kart:

• Frame

• Front spindles

• Motor

• Axle & main sprocket

I'm also planning on replacing most of the hardware (nuts & bolts) on the kart with new ones that include nylon lock nuts for extra safety.

As far as paint goes - we're planning on using some leftover bedliner from a company called 'Monstaliner' and then painting what we don't coat with that in his (high school) colors (orange & blue).

I'll provide a detailed parts list later on, as well as pics during the process.
I realize a build thread is useless without pics & a parts list. Just FYI though, most of my parts came from Go Power Sports and Go Kart Supply, with a few coming from Amazon (surprisingly).

Shout-out to 'landuse' for moving my thread from the intro section to here so we can document all the work in the right place!

 

[RangerRob007]

Update - 7 June 2018

...chances are he lost/replaced the jackshaft mount with one of a different kart that "looks identical" but isn't in dimensions
hard to tell from the pics..
but yes, the belt should run straight and sit much tighter between the sheaves!

Okay,

Here's a pic of my jackshaft mount. Or at least the back of it. I really don't know why it turns the pics. Weird...

The mount itself sits perfectly under the motor, but my question is this: is the mount (a) crooked - leaning to one side, and (b) too far out to one side? Would that be causing the belt to be out of alignment? (I'm presuming yes?)

I looked at some of the new mounts from BMI Karts, but the plates are flat, not raised like the current one.

If I cut the jackshaft (pipe) off the mount and had it re-welded, where would it need to sit (left to right)? Does it need to be centered on the mount, or slide it all the way to the right?

Hoping to fix that this weekend if I can find out how.

The rest of the kart is coming along. I've primed some of the engine parts and will be painting starting tomorrow, and will hopefully get a coat of primer on the kart tomorrow as well.

Pics to follow this weekend!

Thanks everyone!

 

[Kentucky Boy]

Looks like your front spindles were over tightened and bent. That happens a lot with the springer spindles. That will mess up your front end camber.