CVT clutches ... Help! - and a bit of backround on my insane 14 second project

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skylartjsayers

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CVT or snowmobile type trany I need Help! (also some backround on my insane project)

I need help about choosing and best harnessing a cvt transmission like the ones used on snowmobiles, jr dragsters and atv's. I know this is long but please read it. --- Here is some backround. I am building an extremely fast drag racing goped/stand up scooter as I was inspired by this famous vid that almost everyone has seen and voiced their opinion about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1nEwQnOS0

This next video made me know it was possible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=178eONNJuqQ&feature=related

I believe that I can build one on a reasonable budget. I already have two local business sponsors!! I have had a motor donated and a small engine supercharger. ($$$) I plan on documenting my build and success if it sparks anyones interest. Pretty well this build will resemble a jr dragster build, but I am learning lots from go kart builds too. The stand up scooter/goped I am using was designed for off road and touring. The only part I am reusing is the frame and I have refabed it for my aplication (safety first) ---- While a complete overhaul and beef up on the engine is underway I have been contemplating what kind of clutch to use. The cintrifical clutches are rated for 8hp and I hope to see my 4.5 kill that when I am done. I am running the thing on Nitro/alchohol for peat sake. That is another thing I have expermented with if anyone is interested. Also a singal clutch requires the right gearing yes but even then it will not harness the hp as a transmision with varible ratio's. I could buy a motor with a built in 5 speed (dirt bike) but I am interested in using my sponsored 2 stroke motor. (I did say I am harnessing a reaonable budget too) I have been told that you can replace the bearings in a heavier metal bike derailer and use that but given my expected hp I would need a new one after every race day if not a few races. I have explained my plans to the owner of a snowmobile shop because I was looking for sponsorship. He said he did not want to deal outside of the snowmobile community but he did take time to show and explain to me how a cvt transmision works on a snowmobile. He then proceeded to show me a cvt in a Bombardier Rally 200 atv he had beside the shop and I knew the cvt was what I needed. I have found a pair of Bombardier Rally clutches (just the primary and secondary - no belt, case or spline) for 200 dollars which is resonable compared to 600 dollars brand new. Now this is harnessing a cvt off an atv with equal cc and so I am sure it will work. I am not fond of the price though. I did find a cvt off an jr dragster but it looks like a toy compared to the bombardiers. I am not sure it is rated for my application. It is slightly cheaper I know cvt's are successfully harnessed on jr dragsters and go karts and so if anyone knows of any ideal product, has some tips about utilizing a cvt or interest in my project please post. :cheers2:
 
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vgk

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In my post I had a comet 30 series. That would not hold up to the horsepower you are looking for. The 30 series is rated for 3-8 hp. You could get a 40 or 44 series torque converter because those will hold 8-18 horsepower I belive. I dont have a link because the people who makes these have gone bankrupt.
 

Kenny_McCormic

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You DO NOT want a kart or sled style CVT on a go ped, the reason you rarely see motorcycles with them is how they work, if you let off the throttle and get back on(coming out of a corner?) the CVT hits HARD and you could easily lose it that way. What you want is the style of CVT used in 50-250cc motor scooters, with those CVTs the belt is always engaged and there is a cent clutch after CVT. Cent clutches don't engage as hard, so its all good.
 

Kenny_McCormic

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Think of the power weight ratio. Doesn't a LS1 camaro run high 13s-low 14s stock? 310hp/3300lbs (ill spare you the ungodly long decimals) times what, lets say a 150lb rider on a 30 lb bike? I get just short of 17 hp, but then you have to think of how much less wind resistance a standing man is compared to a mid sized car. Very rough math, but it puts him in the ballpark.
 

I like karts

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Actually a dude standing will have quite a bit of wind resistance. You're like an upright rectangle.
 

dpaxson

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cvt's rob alot of hp compared to a motorcycle transmission. especially if you put a cvt with a belt rated for probably 100hp on an engine that's putting out 15ish
 

skylartjsayers

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You DO NOT want a kart or sled style CVT on a go ped.

The thing about this goped is it is being built strictly for the 1/4 mile. It is "all out" striaght down the track. That is why I thought a atv cvt rated for the same hp might work. I can see what your saying though about it being rough while engaging. My Nitro 49cc scooter scars me on the corners lol. I am trying an unorthadox tranny that I will post upon completion. I will save myself the humiliation if does not work lol It is just a test but I would like to see a 4 speed or cvt on there. Please continue to add points on how to give my homemade machine gears
 

skylartjsayers

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What you want is the style of CVT used in 50-250cc motor scooters said:
I like that idea but I have two concerns.
1- Honda outlets or retailers in general alway want "part numbers" and it is a real pain in the but to find what you need. As soon as you tell those guys it is for a differnet application they dont want anything to do with you.

2- arnt manufactures transmissions designed specifically for their corrisponding motor? Like the clutch on my 49cc is not inter changable for more than merely bolt paterns not lining up. the shoes are built into the fly wheel. It is wierd but like I said unique to that motor. Also dont some require the right bolt pattern and seal to retain fluids? If there is a scooter transmission that will slide right off the crankshaft and I can have my crank machined to fit it (like a centrifical clutch) than I am all over it. Let me know if you have any ideas.:cheers2:
 

skylartjsayers

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14 sec. quarter mile with ~12hp... good luck lol

I appreciate the "luck". I have to ask, did you see the second vid in my initial post? That is a 110cc machine!!!! There are lots of single cylinder machines running insane times. jr dragsters are a prime example.
 

skylartjsayers

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Think of the power weight ratio. Doesn't a LS1 camaro run high 13s-low 14s stock? 310hp/3300lbs (ill spare you the ungodly long decimals) times what, lets say a 150lb rider on a 30 lb bike? I get just short of 17 hp, but then you have to think of how much less wind resistance a standing man is compared to a mid sized car. Very rough math, but it puts him in the ballpark.

----------------------
My friend here is right. The key to make small engines kill great time on the track is the wieght to power ratio. A snowmobile is going to successfully compete with my granfathers drag truck because of it. My grandfather has 300+ hp 302. How can a 2 maybe 3 cylinder snowmobile compete?
-> the f150 has 2 fuel tanks, a long box, an 8 cylinder block, rwd auto transmission. Where a snowmobile lacks in the pure displacement it is a much lighter machine and can therefore compete.
A ranger with a 351w is going to bring better time than a f250 with a 351w shearly because of the wieght reduction. A big part of drag racing is wieght reduction and racers look to loose it anyway they can.
I have an advantage in that my machine with me on it will only wiegh give or take 200 lbs. 200 lbs vs 2000lbs. I have a slight advantage here :wai:
 

skylartjsayers

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you have to think of how much less wind resistance a standing man is compared to a mid sized car.[/QUOTE said:
You are right again. Aerodynamics is another key aspect to this projects success. It is actually something I have to deal with because I do catch more air standing up then lets say someone laying on a pocket bike. My resolution to this is how I fabed the frame. I have attempted to lower the gopeds center of gravity and wind resistance. I have made the scooter 6 inches longer, ( I am thinking about more given my new 12' wheels and motor upgrade) and lowered the handle bars about a foot and a half. It sounds like alot but the stock handle bars were incredibly high. I am also in the midst of off seting them over the front wheel kind of like the extensions you see on mountain bikes. What this mod has allowed me to do is manouver the machine while standing up but during a race crouch right over. Also I have found that an open jacket will slow me down so I will have an atire appropriate for racing.:cheers2:
 

skylartjsayers

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cvt's rob alot of hp compared to a motorcycle transmission. especially if you put a cvt with a belt rated for probably 100hp on an engine that's putting out 15ish

They do make lighter cvt's for atv's (rally 200) and jr dragsters. Also I have seen some cvt snowmobiles kill bikes on the race track.
 
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