Clutch not engaging on torque converter

[tsimnami]

Hi everyone,
I recently bought my first go kart from a friend. It’s in good shape and has a predator 301 on the back. However, the clutch on the torque converter was not engaging, and in consequence, no drive was supplied to the wheels. I found a thread from a few years back where someone had a similar problem (http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34117 ) and followed all their steps to fix it. However, the clutch still fails to engage. Any ideas on what’s still going wrong here?

 

[mckutzy]

Hello and welcome....
A few questions...

What is the machine and what is the gear ratio(tooth count on both rear and TC sprockets)?, and what is the OD of the rear tire size measured from the ground??

So it has been completely apart, cleaned and properly re-lubricated????

Does it have the right size and type of belt? How is the belt condition?...

How are the buttons(and are they all present?)

Everything is free moving?

Is the engine free to rev to past the engagement point?( no throttle stops or hangups for the throttle travel...)



Post a few more pics of the area...

 

[tsimnami]

Yep, I was sure to lubricate it correctly; the 8 pronged nut slides in and out no problem.

Rear sprocket has 46 teeth; TC has 10.

Couldn’t find the brand of the TC.

Rear Tire diameter is 18 inches.

Belt looks like it’s in good condition and the right size; then again I’m not 100% sure cause I haven’t worked with this stuff a ton before. My buddy who I bought it off of said it used to work on this belt no problem.

Not sure what the buttons are, where should I look for it?

Everything is free moving.

Thanks much for your help. Here’s a video of what it does with the engine on, if it helps. https://youtu.be/MtmQKOS4UIE

 

[BigWes]

That's a 30 series torque converter with a one inch driver. I'd be surprised if the main isn't wrung out internally. I know they make those because I have one. I bought it because I wanted the secondary and plate for cheap.

It'll never really last long on a 301 under heavy use. But I would double check the driver splines then the belt.

 

[mckutzy]

Im going to say gearing is a bit off.... Needs to be around 6:1....So thereabout a 60t will help...

 

[tsimnami]

Wes, thanks for the help. I didn’t realize that it was a 30 series. Everything else looks ok. Do you think buying and installing a 40 series clutch driver would fix the problem?

 

[BigWes]

I don't think you can mix and match. I am fairly sure the 40 series has a symmetrical belt as well.

But make sure the inner splines are intact on what you have first. And I agree with what mckutzy as well. Your gearing is not optimal. The closer you can get you axle sprocket to 60t count the easier it will be on your entire setup.

---------- Post added at 03:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 PM ----------

The part I think you have is pictured below. If I get the link pasted right.

https://www.gopowersports.com/30-series-1-bore-driver-comet-replacement/

---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 PM ----------

I'm not saying it won't work. But a 40 series will certainly be the best choice.

 

[tsimnami]

Sorry, I’m a bit new to all of this. Where do i find the inner splines, and what should I look for when checking them?

 

[mckutzy]

The splined part is on the second pic, first part where the shoes are contained about with the garter spring...

 

[tsimnami]

Belt and splines look good, might just be time for a new driver clutch.

 

[Brianator]

Maybe the garter springs are rated for a much higher engagement rpm than you're "feeding" it? Standard springs engage around 2300rpms. If you haven't tried it yet already make sure the "pucks" slide on the posts freely. You could also remove one garter spring to see what kind of improvement you get but I wouldn't run it like that for any period of time outside of testing.

 

[tsimnami]

That was a step in the right direction. Got the clutch to engage when I took off a spring, but not enough to send a lot of drive to the wheels. Does this mean that engines not putting out enough power, or does something need to be lubricated?

 

[Karts of Kaos]

I think you choke is on. it sounded like the engine was not revving to 3600rpm.

 

[Brianator]

It's all about rpms not power per se. KOK made a good point so you should chase that lead and make sure you're getting up to proper rpms. Once you sort this out AND your gear ratio, if power is an issue we'll tackle that then. One thing I noticed is that the belt and pulleys LOOK waaay out of alignment, could be a illusion because of the camera angle though...

 

[BigWes]

Hmmm, make sure your throttle stop screw is backed out all the way as well. That can surely cause problems if it's not. The engine will never rev high enough to fully engage the clutch.

Look for it on top of your throttle plate. Normally somewhere near where you have attached your throttle cable. If needed I'll go out in the garage and take a picture of where it is on my 301 for you but I think you can figure it out.

 

[BigWes]

Okay, in the top pic we have a brand new, unaltered virgin 301 predator.

My finger is pointing somewhat to the throttle stop screw. Notice factory air box is in the way. But yeah that's it.





In this picture we have a raggedy, well worn, 212 predator. Lots of rust from plenty of use and exposure to the elements and what not. I don't mind. It gets used. Same thing. It has a stage one kit installed so the throttle stop screw is exposed. I have it backed all the way out. I have left it installed on purpose. This engine is still governed but is a good runner.



These pics are for informational purposes only and may be re-used so long as credit is given back to the original owner--that being me of course. No monetary profit to be made...everyone has the right to learn...knowledge is power. Use it and pass it on. Ride safe and share with a kid...get them off the x-box.

 

[tsimnami]

Thanks to everyone for your help so far. This go kart definitely needs some tlc, but that’s what makes it a good project.

I was able to move back the throttle screw a bit more, allowing me to push the throttle to a higher level.

I’m looking into getting a 60 tooth sprocket for the live axle to sort out the gear ratio.

Looks like the choke was definitely part of the problem. Not exactly sure how it works (sent a picture of what it looked like before I started tinkering), but by bringing the black lever to the off (left) position, the engine was revving at much higher levels that before, and the driven clutch started to engage as it should. Only problem was that the engine would shut off after I opened and closed the throttle.

Nevertheless, a good step forward!

 

[BigWes]

Sir, the black lever is your fuel shutoff lever and needs to remain in the on position while you are trying to operate your engine.

Your grey lever above is your choke lever. It should be used for starting your engine and warmup when cold. It shouldn't be required to use otherwise for a proper operating engine.

 

[tsimnami]

whoops looks like i got that mixed up

I wonder why that’s the thing that got it to work though

 

[BigWes]

I couldn't say... maybe your carb is due for a good thorough cleaning.

It's a meticulous procedure requiring patience and due diligence upon reassembly for sure.

Every single small part must be in its place and each gasket must be exactly right. If it's not perfect you will have issues.

Can you do that? If not...then really think twice about taking it apart. And don't blame me!

But if you are confident. And proficient with tools. And have patience and realize it's completely possible you may screw it up...then by all means...what have you got to lose?

It's not hard to do and do it right.

Be careful with gaskets. Take pics as you take it off the engine. Don't rush! Clean work area! You may drop parts!

Things you might need. Brass bristle wire brush. Nylon bristle brush...tooth brush will work. Thin wire like .020 several inches long to clear air passages. Spray cleaner...I use B-12 Chemtool. Be careful with whatever you use. Keep it away from paint and rubber. I use Simple Green on exterior of the carb and the bowl. It actually works good without removing any kind of plating. I just use the spray cleaner and the red tube to blast out passages.

Every person has their own method. Mine just works for me.

I do remove the jets and etube and make sure they are all clean. Normally if the engine idles ok I leave the low side jet alone. I've had some nasty carbs where the low side jet was not clogged.