Briggs Flathead Mods and aftermarket carb

Scrambler

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Hey! just joined the forum. I have a few questions, well mabey more like need a few opinions. I have a vintage go kart with dual motor mounts and a flathead Briggs 5hp on it.i have no Idea what brand or model the kart itself is so I'll post pics later and see if anyone can figure it out, it does have some numbers on it and i believe it was made here in Michigan. Anyways, I ported and polished the engine, shaved the eyebrows, decked the head ( not sure how much lol) and cut a small fire slot in the head (not sure how much this did, just an old ford flathead thing). It has gained significant power from stock but now I am looking towards a performance carb. My thought was a pwk 24mm with a Tecumseh intake I have. Would this get me some more speed and overall better powerband or should I go 21mm. The kart tops out at about 36mph, but it accelerates pretty slow. Also, would a 212 header work on this engine or not? I don't want to remove the governor right now because i dont feel like having the flywheel exploding like a live grenade lol, thanks in advance.
 

panchothedog

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If you already got 36mph you are doing pretty good. A bigger carburetor will help. A 24 mm might be a bit big. Do you know how many cc's or cubic inches the engine is? At your age I am surprised that you even know what a Ford flathead is. Good for you. Even with more power the kart will accelerate slow
( I am assuming you are running a centrifugal clutch ). A cheap 30 series torque converter would change that dramatically. Engine has to have a 3/4" shaft for that to work . For more top speed get a billet or racing style flywheel and then remove the govoner. Even with lots of engine modifications, it's only going to spin as fast as the govoner will allow it. You are probably already there. So until
it's removed I doubt you will see much of an increase in speed.
 

Rat

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Hey! just joined the forum. I have a few questions, well mabey more like need a few opinions. I have a vintage go kart with dual motor mounts and a flathead Briggs 5hp on it.i have no Idea what brand or model the kart itself is so I'll post pics later and see if anyone can figure it out, it does have some numbers on it and i believe it was made here in Michigan. Anyways, I ported and polished the engine, shaved the eyebrows, decked the head ( not sure how much lol) and cut a small fire slot in the head (not sure how much this did, just an old ford flathead thing).
Warning of caution, it's really easy to do too much to a flatty and end up losing power, especially if its an old one with a cast iron flywheel... a cast aluminum one will rev faster and higher (less likely to explode on you too)
It has gained significant power from stock but now I am looking towards a performance carb. My thought was a pwk 24mm with a Tecumseh intake I have. Would this get me some more speed and overall better powerband or should I go 21mm.
Considering a 5hp briggs flatty is in the range of 196-210cc a 24mm carb is going to be a bit big. I'd say 20mm carb is going to be your best bet, MAYBE 22 at the most (when in doubt, just match the intake port diameter)
Using a "motorcycle" type carb means opening it up to remove all the governor hardware and plugging the case... I mention this because I didn't see where you mentioned having done anything with that or not at first.

The kart tops out at about 36mph, but it accelerates pretty slow. Also, would a 212 header work on this engine or not?
Different (closer than 48mm) stud spacing so No it will not, iirc the common Briggs type 5hp spacing is 40mm with 1" pipe threads inside the port
I was warned about removing those threads because the exhaust port is already technically too big so you may want to consider making an exhaust by just using a black iron pipe.
Stick a 2" nipple in the port with a 45° elbow on the end, with another 45° and stick a sausage in it (a briggs lawn muffler)

Your acceleration issue could be the gearing, could be the tire size... never immediately blame the engine for performance issues because it will only ever perform as well as the running gear allows. Could be the clutch because AFAIK NONE of those twin engine karts were yard karts which means they got a bare bones centrifugal clutch, they like to be kept at high rpm. Stop and go, or low rpm riding will fry a centrifugal clutch fast and being geared wrong for terrain and usage habbits will fry one the fastest

I don't want to remove the governor right now because i dont feel like having the flywheel exploding like a live grenade lol, thanks in advance.
You can't swap the carb for any other carb except another lawn carb without deleting the governor. That applies to ALL small equipment engines used for karts.

As mentioned above if the stock flywheel is an old cast iron one (fins are part of the cast), they can weigh up to 12lbs iirc for a 5hp Briggs so it will hold the rpm from spinning up quickly, but the rotational mass will also keep it spinning instead of letting it idle down promptly once off the throttle.
You should consider a cast aluminum one to gain throttle and rpm responsiveness while simultaneously raising the safety threshold of when it may or may not explode.

Every flywheel is its own anomaly, I've got a stock 5lb cast iron flywheel on my built 208 (charing system requirement) and never fail to spin it north of 5k rpm every ride. That's the thing, some explode between 4k and 5k, most hold up fine to 6k or just over, and yet others might make 8-9k if you can get the engine to spin that hard

Someone else would have better info on what you can get away with and what would be best, but we need pics and better info on the overall set up you've got going to get the power to the ground.
 

Scrambler

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If you already got 36mph you are doing pretty good. A bigger carburetor will help. A 24 mm might be a bit big. Do you know how many cc's or cubic inches the engine is? At your age I am surprised that you even know what a Ford flathead is. Good for you. Even with more power the kart will accelerate slow
( I am assuming you are running a centrifugal clutch ). A cheap 30 series torque converter would change that dramatically. Engine has to have a 3/4" shaft for that to work . For more top speed get a billet or racing style flywheel and then remove the govoner. Even with lots of engine modifications, it's only going to spin as fast as the govoner will allow it. You are probably already there. So until
it's removed I doubt you will see much of an increase in speed.
not sure on the cc's all i know is its a 5hp flathead. I see some cheap torque converters for sale online i will look into that but not sure how exactly i will get that power to the wheel, yes its a one wheel peel. I also have heard a few ppl say that a 24mm would be too big, in that case 21//22mm it is. Its a dual motor mount kart so the remote tank will be mounted to the other motor mount and will require a fuel pump. I'm assuming I can get a mikuni 3 input pulse pump and use the pulse from the valve cover, am i correct? thanks for the response 👍
 

Scrambler

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Warning of caution, it's really easy to do too much to a flatty and end up losing power, especially if its an old one with a cast iron flywheel... a cast aluminum one will rev faster and higher (less likely to explode on you too)

Considering a 5hp briggs flatty is in the range of 196-210cc a 24mm carb is going to be a bit big. I'd say 20mm carb is going to be your best bet, MAYBE 22 at the most (when in doubt, just match the intake port diameter)
Using a "motorcycle" type carb means opening it up to remove all the governor hardware and plugging the case... I mention this because I didn't see where you mentioned having done anything with that or not at first.


Different (closer than 48mm) stud spacing so No it will not, iirc the common Briggs type 5hp spacing is 40mm with 1" pipe threads inside the port
I was warned about removing those threads because the exhaust port is already technically too big so you may want to consider making an exhaust by just using a black iron pipe.
Stick a 2" nipple in the port with a 45° elbow on the end, with another 45° and stick a sausage in it (a briggs lawn muffler)

Your acceleration issue could be the gearing, could be the tire size... never immediately blame the engine for performance issues because it will only ever perform as well as the running gear allows. Could be the clutch because AFAIK NONE of those twin engine karts were yard karts which means they got a bare bones centrifugal clutch, they like to be kept at high rpm. Stop and go, or low rpm riding will fry a centrifugal clutch fast and being geared wrong for terrain and usage habbits will fry one the fastest


You can't swap the carb for any other carb except another lawn carb without deleting the governor. That applies to ALL small equipment engines used for karts.

As mentioned above if the stock flywheel is an old cast iron one (fins are part of the cast), they can weigh up to 12lbs iirc for a 5hp Briggs so it will hold the rpm from spinning up quickly, but the rotational mass will also keep it spinning instead of letting it idle down promptly once off the throttle.
You should consider a cast aluminum one to gain throttle and rpm responsiveness while simultaneously raising the safety threshold of when it may or may not explode.

Every flywheel is its own anomaly, I've got a stock 5lb cast iron flywheel on my built 208 (charing system requirement) and never fail to spin it north of 5k rpm every ride. That's the thing, some explode between 4k and 5k, most hold up fine to 6k or just over, and yet others might make 8-9k if you can get the engine to spin that hard

Someone else would have better info on what you can get away with and what would be best, but we need pics and better info on the overall set up you've got going to get the power to the ground.
ok, first off yes a 24mm carb is to big, a few ppl have sad that. Also, i did have a 3/4 threaded pipe for an exhaust , but i assumed that a bolt on one would free up the exhaust port which would be better for the engine. I can put that back on then. Would a cast aluminum flywheel be equally as safe as a billet one? an ARC billet flywheel is 150 bucks but i wouldn't know where to find a cast aluminum one. Ive also heard of using a 3hp flywheel but im not sure about this. Im entertaining the idea of a cvt style clutch there not that expensive. The kart is at my grandparents house at the moment so i will try to get pictures of everything as soon as i can, and i will let you know the gearing as well.
 

Thepartsguy

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ok, first off yes a 24mm carb is to big, a few ppl have sad that. Also, i did have a 3/4 threaded pipe for an exhaust , but i assumed that a bolt on one would free up the exhaust port which would be better for the engine. I can put that back on then. Would a cast aluminum flywheel be equally as safe as a billet one? an ARC billet flywheel is 150 bucks but i wouldn't know where to find a cast aluminum one. Ive also heard of using a 3hp flywheel but im not sure about this. Im entertaining the idea of a cvt style clutch there not that expensive. The kart is at my grandparents house at the moment so i will try to get pictures of everything as soon as i can, and i will let you know the gearing as well.
it’s an open wheel duel engine kart?? Only reason I ask is your torque converter MIGHT not even for your kart unless you move the engine over. We NEED some pictures.
 

Scrambler

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Yes its an open wheel one-wheel peel. It has dual motor mounts but only 1 engine. I also dont think a tourque converter will fit either i will get pics as soon as i can.
 

Thepartsguy

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Get us a picture asap. It might be too valuable to go cutting it up and may be older than you think it is. Do you know what brand it is?
Exactly! With one of the two stroke engines running backwards to power that other side open wheel he could have something WAY COOL! I’m here waiting! Watch it be somthing crazy like a duel powerbee kart..
 

Scrambler

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i don't think is that speacial lol but it does have the original 'tire scraper' brakes on it. i was going to cut them off to put bigger wheels onit but i figured id keep them on just incase.
 

Thepartsguy

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i don't think is that speacial lol but it does have the original 'tire scraper' brakes on it. i was going to cut them off to put bigger wheels onit but i figured id keep them on just incase.
You CANNOT run TWO FOUR STROKE engines on an open wheel duel engine kart.. The kart would do donuts.. SO IF it’s open wheel one two stroke chainsaw HAS to run backwards.. I have some jonsareds that would be awesome on the back of it!
46479AB3-EAAB-4B87-8030-81BBBD4AB2B8.jpeg
 

Scrambler

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found these pics on my phone not the best ill geta few more later and a pic of the nameplate if its still there lol
 

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Scrambler

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You CANNOT run TWO FOUR STROKE engines on an open wheel duel engine kart.. The kart would do donuts.. SO IF it’s open wheel one two stroke chainsaw HAS to run backwards.. I have some jonsareds that would be awesome on the back of it!
View attachment 145533
so they did make dual engine 2 stroke karts? were they mounted the same direction but just one of the engines was running backwards cuz u can do that with a 2 stroke right?
 

Thepartsguy

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so they did make dual engine 2 stroke karts? were they mounted the same direction but just one of the engines was running backwards cuz u can do that with a 2 stroke right?
YES mounted the same way on the back of the kart one two stroke engine runs backwards. Your kart looked exactly as I pictured it. Duel engine vintage yard kart.

Your kart doesn’t make much sense to me though.. Open wheel with four stroke 5hp mounts? I Honestly expected to see some kind of chainsaw two stroke plates. UNLESS there the same but I do not think they are.
 

Scrambler

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Cool! i would love to see one of those in action. I will take a pic of the nameplate with the model number on it a little later. I tried looking it up once and found nothing.
 

Rat

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YES mounted the same way on the back of the kart one two stroke engine runs backwards. Your kart looked exactly as I pictured it. Duel engine vintage yard kart.

Your kart doesn’t make much sense to me though.. Open wheel with four stroke 5hp mounts? I Honestly expected to see some kind of chainsaw two stroke plates. UNLESS there the same but I do not think they are.
Tecumseh made some 2t that were similar to a 4t flathead block, so did McCulloch/McCullough
 

Rat

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Cool! i would love to see one of those in action. I will take a pic of the nameplate with the model number on it a little later. I tried looking it up once and found nothing.
Karting much like dirtbikes had a boom era... there are dirtbikes (many of them turds) that were made by companies that did well for a short time and vanished into the dusty archives.

Chaparral (better know for snowmobiles)
Bultaco
Hodaka
Rupp (they rode the dirtbike, minibike, and kart waves)
just to name a few.

The short of it is the fact you can't find anything means it was a smaller company that may or may not have done well, but disappeared as quickly as the rose up. There's many things that were lost to the pre-internet dust because they just didn't leave a significant footprint of remeberence
 

panchothedog

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You can't power a fuel pump off of the pulse from the valve cover, because being a flathead it has no valve cover. Maybe there's a port somewhere that you can tap
into. I'm not very familiar with that engine. Also I am completely wrong about suggesting a torque converter. Being a dual engine kart it obviously isn't a live axle, which is what is needed to run a torque converter. As many have suggested, figure out what you have before you start cutting it up. Two 2 strokes powering it
would be an absolute blast.
 
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