A slippery subject , oil weight

karl

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Oil brands and synthetic vs conventional oils have plenty of opinions associated with them.

I get it, and that's not the direct focus here.

Typically 30 weight oils are what's dumped in predators and the likes, as I have done for years.
Stock or hopped up, 30w seems to be the "norm"

I see that ARC recommends at least a medium weight oil for their billet gx200/ clone type rods,
but NR racing says 20w for gx200/ clone's , and 30w for big blocks.

And some 4t kart type oils are sold in 20w.

So what yall feel bout 0w20 oil in their kart motor?

Less drag= more power? I tore down one of my predators, and noticed cylinder scuffing top and bottom,
the cam and con rod does not look great, and I don't care to reuse any of the motor parts. So just stuck it back together,
run it till the end. 12.7 :1 compression, 61mph @5500. Pulls wheelies. Upgraded cast rod and genuine honda flywheel from junk GCV190 mower.

I decided to try it, picked up 3qts royal purple 0w20, and going to run it from today on out with the motor, just to see
what happens.

Thoughts? Thanks.



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landuse

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I have never really thought about it too much. I just use the "regular" around these parts which is 10W40. We don't have weather extremes here either

I would be interested in your results though
 

madprofessor

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Heavy weight oil clings well to surfaces. Light weight oil penetrates well into passages. Doesn't mean multi-viscosity oil does both. So............
I only use Royal Purple Break-in Oil (has a 30 weight base) in a new engine, no additives needed. Can you guess what goes right back in on every oil change? Yep, same stuff. If it keeps as yet unmated (new) parts from clawing off metal during break-ins, then it's good enough forever.
On the infrequent occasions that N.E. Florida gets down to freezing so that a light weight oil or a multi-viscosity oil's extreme light additive portion is called for, doesn't matter at all about my oil's viscosity. My shivering backside is curled up inside with a hot pot of coffee.
 

karl

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Can you guess what goes right back in on every oil change? Yep, same stuff. If it keeps as yet unmated (new) parts from clawing off metal during break-ins, then it's good enough forever.
I don't think that's a great idea. Yeah it's got plenty of ZDDP, and is good for a couple of oil changes, but is not formulated or engineered
for long term use. The additive package and detergents are simply not intended for long term use, and you don't need to take my word for it.

VP racing's take

Depending on the application, break-in oil is used for 500 – 1,000 miles, or 10-12 full heat cycles, where the engine is allowed to reach full operating temperature and cool down completely between cycles.

You should use break-in oil only long enough to seat the engine. The abrasive wear caused by engine break-in can increase exponentially. Therefore, it’s important to change the oil as soon as proper break-in has occurred. This can vary greatly and is often determined by ring tension and valvetrain type. If you’re unsure of break-in duration, contact your engine builder for recommendations.

Since break-in engine oils are designed for short-term use, they typically don’t have the degree of detergents you’ll find in a fully-formulated engine oil.

Even royal purple states this

We recommend using our Engine Break-In Oil for a minimum of 500-1,000 miles in street driven gasoline engines to assure that the complete ring break-in has been completed before switching to one of our full synthetic engine oils. If need be, you can use for up to 2500 miles.

My take with the thinner viscosity oil, especially with cast rods lacking the forced oil dipper slot, is the
thinner oil will get in the rod journal easier and prolong life at high speeds.

I have never really thought about it too much. I just use the "regular" around these parts which is 10W40. We don't have weather extremes here either

I would be interested in your results though

Good to hear from ya bud, Ill keep yall posted! It's survived a couple few top speed pulls, at the end of the week ill drain it and see what we got.
 

madprofessor

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Since break-in engine oils are designed for short-term use, they typically don’t have the degree of detergents you’ll find in a fully-formulated engine oil.
Huh..............that didn't transplant for a reply. Just a copy and paste thing. Anyway, that's the one statement I see there that in any way says break-in oil isn't the best of choices for oil changes. And that's based on while it's not a completely non-detergent oil, it still doesn't have as much detergent as other detergent oils do. Used to be the only choices you had to make in the motor oil aisle was oil viscosity, and detergent or non-detergent.
When read carefully, you can see that the other statements aren't actually saying anything about the oils at all. All they're saying is to do an oil change of your dang dirty break-in oils in a reasonable amount of miles, it's full of metal by then. Even Royal Purple is saying to keep it in continuously for at least long enough to complete the break-in, but change your dang dirty oil by at the latest 2500 miles.
Not a word about not putting more in, just an assumption that at $11 per qt. for their break-in oil, you'll buy one of their full synthetic oils afterwards for $5 per qt. for your 5-6 qt. V8 motor.
 

OPmini

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I just use 10-w30. Run the conventional for break-in. Run the full synthetic after break-in. I hope this doesnt turn into a screaming match like every other oil thread smh.
 

karl

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Huh..............that didn't transplant for a reply. Just a copy and paste thing.
Yes, from a more reputable source than yourself

Anyway, that's the one statement I see there that in any way says break-in oil isn't the best of choices for oil changes
I guess we shall conveniently ignore this part
You should use break-in oil only long enough to seat the engine. The abrasive wear caused by engine break-in can increase exponentially. Therefore, it’s important to change the oil as soon as proper break-in has occurred.
Its quite simple, once the engine is broke in, break in oil is no longer needed or wanted

And that's based on while it's not a completely non-detergent oil, it still doesn't have as much detergent as other detergent oils do. Used to be the only choices you had to make in the motor oil aisle was oil viscosity, and detergent or non-detergent.
Yeah some, but non detergent is rated for cars prior to what, 1910, tab bit more crude than what's on the table.

When read carefully, you can see that the other statements aren't actually saying anything about the oils at all. All they're saying is to do an oil change of your dang dirty break-in oils in a reasonable amount of miles, it's full of metal by then.
Maybe, but changing the wrong oil more often to get the same result is more that a band aid than a solution , no?
Even Royal Purple is saying to keep it in continuously for at least long enough to complete the break-in, but change your dang dirty oil by at the latest 2500 miles.
That's the point , long enough for the break in, after 2500 miles the motor is broke in, sorry if that is not making sense.

Not a word about not putting more in, just an assumption that at $11 per qt. for their break-in oil, you'll buy one of their full synthetic oils afterwards for $5 per qt. for your 5-6 qt. V8 motor.
I think that is indeed just an assumption.

I just use 10-w30. Run the conventional for break-in. Run the full synthetic after break-in. I hope this doesnt turn into a screaming match like every other oil thread smh.
Whoops. Yeah that's what I have done till now, just hoping to hear some input from people that actually put some hours on hopped up engines,
and why the thinner oil is recommended for such.
 

madprofessor

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Okay, I surrender, will keep my demented logic to myself. Just to see what the opinions are on a thing, I will relate this one thing I saw on a television episode of "Fast And Loud".................
They built a new engine, and to save money on the break-in they used standard motor oil qts. and one of the bottles of break-in additive on top of the motor oil. It folded over the cam lobes it was supposed to protect.
Head mechanic Aaron said they'll never cheap out again by not paying the extra dollars of getting a dedicated break-in oil.
 

karl

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Totally, especially on a high $ build cheaping out on the brake-in oil is foolish.

Id much rather get oil formulated to do a specific job rather than rely on 3rd party additives.
 

Bansil

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What is a "life" of a stage 3 212, living in typical bike or kart?

2hrs ride time 7 days a week is like 750 hours a year.

So let's say average of 20 mph for 2 hrs, that is a ton of probably unrealistic numbers @ 15,000 miles.

I know growing up we beat on them at least a couple hours aday and they lived for several years(stock engines)


So when to change oil? Every 40hrs? :popcorn:


Disclaimer...my math is my math....🤪
 

madprofessor

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A friend of mine (yeah you, Alvin) told me many years ago that his Chevy Stepside hadn't had the oil drained out of it in 75K miles and it's runs great. He just adds a quart every 10k miles or so. Before I could faint he told me he has religiously replaced the oil filter and the oil lost in it every 3K miles. Still wanted to faint, but needed to do the math on viscosity loss via miles, time, and heat vs. viscosity replacement with 3&1/3 filters-full plus 1 qt. over 10K miles, repeated 7.5 times.
There you go Bansil, I'd rather trust your math than give myself another headache like that one by trying to do the math myself.
Y'all have yourselves some fun chewing on that one. I'm gonna chew on some Tylenol.
 

Bansil

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A friend of mine (yeah you, Alvin) told me many years ago that his Chevy Stepside hadn't had the oil drained out of it in 75K miles and it's runs great. He just adds a quart every 10k miles or so. Before I could faint he told me he has religiously replaced the oil filter and the oil lost in it every 3K miles. Still wanted to faint, but needed to do the math on viscosity loss via miles, time, and heat vs. viscosity replacement with 3&1/3 filters-full plus 1 qt. over 10K miles, repeated 7.5 times.
There you go Bansil, I'd rather trust your math than give myself another headache like that one by trying to do the math myself.
Y'all have yourselves some fun chewing on that one. I'm gonna chew on some Tylenol.
No offense meant, it was actually a real question, not messing with you or anyone else.

Seriously what is life span, oil change on these things?
Used to change log splitters every spring after condensation settled down to get water out, kinda like 2 stroke boat engines, in the late fall both got cylinders dusted with spray oil to lube rings and cylinders.

Having $500+ invested in a toy engine is a thing.
 

madprofessor

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Never been a set number of hours or of time in my head for it, just been kind of a feeling about it. Like the higher it revs, the sooner it gets the oil changed. If it's been under-powered so hence full throttle at all times, it gets changed sooner. Kinda hard to explain what it feels like.
 

karl

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So when to change oil? Every 40hrs? :popcorn:
Well for a bone stock engine it's recommended at 20hr intervals.

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Typically the lifespan of a new , stock and governed predator is around 500-1,000 hours.
Double that for a genuine honda.

One the governor goes, that is shortened quite a bit.

As far as staged engines, that is going to heavily depend on the build, maintenance, and usage.
Running around a track wide open for a whole race is going to be much more intensive on an engine
than putting around and occasionally winding it out.

So instead of changing the oil every race or hour runtime give or take, you can probably get
away with every 3-5 hours or so.

The race engine may only last 30-60 hours , you can expect more, 2-300 tops?

I run most my 212's at full go most the time, so shorter life and drain intervals.

Like the professor say's, it will take some judgment on your end.
 

Bansil

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Yeah, I figured a lot of guessing.

Reality for me will be 5 min ride to boat and back home a couple times a week. And a couple times a month 3 mile round trip for ice cream 🍦😋 at closest marina.
 

karl

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Yeah, I figured a lot of guessing.

Reality for me will be 5 min ride to boat and back home a couple times a week. And a couple times a month 3 mile round trip for ice cream 🍦😋 at closest marina.
Not really, just check the oil occasionally and use common sense.

I gave an interval , but unless you have an hour meter, your guessing too.

Neither does 99% of predator owners, so I doubt the 20hr change is strictly followed.

Ice cream? :drool5:

Don't worry, ill be just fine.
 

karl

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Hellzzzs yeah, griddle and freezer at marina, oh and adult beverages!

Flattop burgers, fries, gas oil oil and ice-cream...

I will post vids....non..incriminating of course :cool:
That puts the flats to shame, please do!

Put least 10 miles on it, so far so good with 0w20 . The open header snapped from vibration, so I took action.
This went from the loudest bike I own to the quietest, the 2' straight pipe was deafening, so I created solutions.
I did not have the room for a giant silencer, so I welded two honda GCV190 mufflers together, flow quite well. The in/out is
offset, so with the width of the sheet metal between creates a 3rd chamber. Super quite , does not seem to restrict the motor.
 

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madprofessor

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Pics below are not a muffler, it's a silencer. Works on the same principle as noise-cancelling headphones, but no batteries required. Made from 3" tailpipe extension and smaller reducers and couplings from auto parts store, welded solid around each bulkhead, with no internal restrictions. Free-flowing as you can get inside a can, but quiet as a muffler. The black cylinder on the minibike with the SS steel wool support bracket is the finished silencer with flat black header paint.
Had to prove it to the haters, so I made a video of it running. Go to Youtube, type in "quiet but unrestricted" in search bar. It's the first thing that pops up, the proof is in the putting. NOTE: Have another successful one now, rectangular, 2" tall, works the same.
 

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