2017 - El Moto

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
Howdy you all! :thumbsup:

I got a new project :wai:

...that used parts from another project :cool:

So, lets double down on this :thumbsup:
 

Attachments

  • SAM_3909.jpg
    SAM_3909.jpg
    439.4 KB · Views: 35
  • SAM_3911.jpg
    SAM_3911.jpg
    400.8 KB · Views: 21
  • SAM_3913.jpg
    SAM_3913.jpg
    342 KB · Views: 20

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
why must everything be electric ��
look how nice the engine looks on it now...

Electric karts are new & exciting

Instant torque, different power curve, reconfigurable (can be set up different ways)

So, an electric motorcycle, Ya! :2guns: do I need to say more?

...& that nice lookin' engine is seized.

So, this is kinda like a rebirth :thumbsup:

Old life: 1980 Kawasaki 440 LTD

New life: El Moto (Electric Motorcycle)
 

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
So, the plan is to:

A. Remove ALL electrical components off of El Dingo.

Why? It's not a good combination. :ack2:

1. Using a motor with a 100+ amp draw & the batteries needed to power it is kinda ridiculous for a go kart.

2. Super over weight (~250 lbs.)
adding a ~40lb. motor + 60 lbs. in batteries (3 x20 lb.) & the controller, cables etc. is just toooo much. :ack2:

3. Plus All that weight on top on a live axle = almost NO steering (when you turned the wheel it was more like a suggestion than a command)


B. Remove all ICE (internal combustion engine) parts off the motorcycle.

Why? Motor is seized (giving 'er a new life :thumbsup:


C. Install an 1,800 watt brushless motor & speed controller on the Dingo

Why? It should be a better combination. :cornut:

It's a lot lighter motor (weighs ~20 lbs.) with ~ a 30 amp draw

& it runs @ 48V (needs 4- 12V batteries) with a 4.500 max rpm.

D. Install the 8,000 watt brushed motor, off El Dingo, onto the motorcycle.

Why? It should be a better combination.

Having the weight (motor & batteries), centered on the vehicle, should provide better balance.

& being a bigger vehicle , it should carry the weight better.
 

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
As you can see in the 1st pic, I got everything off the Dingo. :thumbsup:

Gonna start to reassemble El Dingo II first

Should go together pretty easy.

Goin' for lighter this time too because:

the motor we were using a big 8,000 watt motor (~40 lbs.) now using a smaller, 1,800 watt brushless motor ~20 lbs.)

controller: the brushless controller only weighs about 1/2 the weight of the Kelly controller

battery pack: was using 3-12V 35Ah batteries (~60 lbs.) now using 4-12V 20AH batteries (~45 lbs.)

battery cables: brushless motor/controller uses 10-12 g. battery/motor wires instead of 4g. cables)

So, we're ~ a 50 lb. reduction already :2guns:

Next, was roundin' up stuff to make everything work together

The brushless motor came with a T8F 9t sprocket (metric)

I don't have anything like that but, the sprocket on the 450 watt motor that we have been using for the El Turbo bench tests looks similar

& if it fits, then we can probably use the extra #35 chain & rear sprocket that I took off the El Turbo kart (formerly Double Trouble)

Yup! it fits :2guns:
 

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
Got the sprocket changed on the motor

& the extra, rear sprocket off the El Turbo kart.

& got it installed onto El Dingo II

I figured it would be best to mount the motor to the (ICE) engine mounting plate

& mount the batteries where the bigger batteries were mounted before

So, I made an adapter plate that would mount the motor on the kart

Didn't like it so, :ack2:

I re-evaluated the situation

How about if I made a tray that would hold the batteries & be a mount for the motor

It could mount right on the standard motor mount & keep most of the added weight more centered on the kart

Ya, I think I like that better, lets try that :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk3Bkj_nPEQ
 

Attachments

  • SAM_3806.jpg
    SAM_3806.jpg
    203 KB · Views: 3
  • SAM_3809.jpg
    SAM_3809.jpg
    200.2 KB · Views: 4
  • SAM_3858.jpg
    SAM_3858.jpg
    376.3 KB · Views: 4
  • SAM_3844.jpg
    SAM_3844.jpg
    288.5 KB · Views: 5
  • SAM_3805.jpg
    SAM_3805.jpg
    374.3 KB · Views: 3
  • SAM_3862.jpg
    SAM_3862.jpg
    271.2 KB · Views: 3

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
To get started, I just layed a 1/4" x 6" piece of steel on the stock motor mount

set the motor all the way forward (~1" from the seat)

set the (4) batteries in a row, right behind the motor

(comes right to the back edge of the frame but, don't hang over) :thumbsup:

Looks pretty good but, with the torque of the motor & the weight of the batteries

...I don't think just a flat plate will suffice

I'm thinkin' more like a plate with like ~ 1" sides (a battery tray)

The sides would provide added strength (to handle torque) & help keep the batteries from sliding around

& with the added strength maybe we can go with lighter steel

So, I had a (2) 1" sides bent onto a 10 1/4" x 17 1/2" piece of 3/16" steel

Now, we have a modular, 17 1/2" battery tray/motor mount with a 7 1/2" bottom & 1" sides

...that mounts to stock mount & slides like an engine would to adjust (tighten) the chain :2guns:
 

Attachments

  • SAM_3907.jpg
    SAM_3907.jpg
    202.8 KB · Views: 2
  • SAM_3904.jpg
    SAM_3904.jpg
    392 KB · Views: 1
  • SAM_3903.jpg
    SAM_3903.jpg
    270.9 KB · Views: 1
  • SAM_3897.jpg
    SAM_3897.jpg
    240.2 KB · Views: 1

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
Drilled the holes :

...to mount the motor

...to mount it to the kart

...for the battery hold downs

...& even a hole for the lower vent hole on the motor to maintain maximum air flow

Shot it w/red oxide primer to seal it up :thumbsup:

Cut & tapped a couple of 1/4" rods & a piece of 1/8" x ~2" steel for a battery hold down

Got the motor mounted to our tray then mounted the tray onto the kart

installed & adjusted the chain

mounted the batteries & secured them

mounted the speed controller right to the back of the seat

(kinda convenient with everything right there)

& didn't have to extend any wires or anything

Ya, I like that

Nice-n-compact-n-centered :2guns:
 

Attachments

  • SAM_4032.jpg
    SAM_4032.jpg
    303.3 KB · Views: 4
  • SAM_4031.jpg
    SAM_4031.jpg
    244.4 KB · Views: 3
  • SAM_4030.jpg
    SAM_4030.jpg
    363.1 KB · Views: 3
  • SAM_4028.jpg
    SAM_4028.jpg
    257.9 KB · Views: 2
  • SAM_3921.jpg
    SAM_3921.jpg
    215.4 KB · Views: 1

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
All that went pretty well

Now, lets get 'er wired up

This brushless motor/controller has/uses more wires than the brushed motor/controllers I have worked with before

The motor did NOT come with any installation or wiring instructions

They have a "wiring definition interface" on their web site but, it's kinda simple

So, lets see if we can figure this out

It says,

Brushless Controller:

Rated Voltage DC 48V
Current Limit: 32A
Rated Power: 1,800w
Matching Motor: DC Brushless Motor Under voltage protection: 20V


Wires Interface Definition

Battery: Thick Black (Power Negative) / Thick Red (Power Positive)
Motor: Thick Yellow (Motor Negative) / (Thick Blue (Motor Positive)
Ignition Switch: Thin Red (VCC) / Thin Blue
Indicator: Thin Red (Indicator Power Output) / Thin Black (Indicator Negative)
Brake: Thin Yellow (signal) / Thin Black (Negative)
Speed Governor: Thin Blue (Speed Handlebar signal Input)
Thin Black (Negative)
Thin Red (5V Positive)
Charge Port: Thin Red (+) / Thin Black (-)
Brake light: Thin Red (+) / Thin Black (-)


These must be the necessary ones because,

there are more plug ins than are listed here

& there is also a Thick Green wire with a 3/16" ring terminal like the Thick wires that go to the motor & battery pack

Now, for the motor:

It has (5) thick wires with 3/16" ring terminals & (5) thin wires contained in a separate plug in, coming out of the harness

It seems simple enough:

The colors of the (5) thick wires coming out of the motor match up with the colors of the (5) thick wires with ring terminals coming out of the controller

The (5) thin wire plug coming out of the motor matches up with a (5) wire plug coming from the controller :thumbsup:

The throttle has a (3) wire plug that plugs into the speed governor

We'll run the ignition (on/off) switch up to the stock "kill switch" on the Dingo steering wheel

& the thick black & thick red wires go to the battery pack

Well, lets give that a try :2guns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXLuc8YkwlQ
 

Attachments

  • SAM_3773.jpg
    SAM_3773.jpg
    281 KB · Views: 5
  • SAM_3783.jpg
    SAM_3783.jpg
    197.2 KB · Views: 4

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
Hmmm, Nothin' happening. :ack2:

Last week when I was first trying to figure these wiring directions,

I emailed the seller with a few questions.


Hello,

I purchased your 1,800W brushless motor with controller & hand throttle.

It did not come with a manual or instructions.

I have a few questions about instilling it.

I read & understand the wires interface definition.

but, it does not cover everything.

1. What is the thick green wire for? Is it needed?

2. there are a couple of extra plug ins that are not listed on the wire interface definition. Are they needed?

3. many electrical systems that have a speed controller operating a motor also have a solenoid wired into the motor circuit. Is this needed or recommended for this motor controller combo?

their answer:

Dear friend
Pls don't worry,and check the Wiring diagram,
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/Tiandi123/TD037_0001.jpg
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/Tiandi123/TD037-1.jpg
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/Tiandi123/td037-2.jpg
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/Tiandi123/TD037-4.jpg
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/Tiandi123/TD037-3.jpg
And hope this can help you, if you tsil have any question, we hope you can take a picture about the wires,then this will be better help us confirm it,ok?
have a nice day


Um, OK that was NOT very helpful

I can figure this out! :thumbsup:

So, I proceeded to mount everything on the kart

& as you seen, nothin' happened :ack2:


I emailed the seller again:


I purchased this motor controller throttle combo pack.

I hooked it up as per the wiring directions & it does NOTHING.

It does NOT hum, rotate or do anything.

I checked, it's getting 48V to controller & the throttle shows 4.5V when twisted

Very disappointed.


Their answer:

Hi,Pls don't worry,and firstly we need confirm if you have contact it as our Wiring diagram?If yes, pls don't worry, could you pls take some picture about your wires contact ok? the item is all have text before we send out, so they are no problem, maybe some wires don't contact correct,so pls offer us some picture to help us confirm it,ok?
Have a nice day

I sent back:

I have everything contact correct, just as your wiring definition describes. The Thick Red (+) coming out of the controller is hooked to the positive (+) of a 48V battery pack (4- 12V batteries wired in series) & the Thick Black (-) coming out of the controller is hooked to the negative (-) of the battery pack. The Thick Blue coming out of the controller is hooked to the Thick Blue coming out of the motor. The Thick Yellow coming out of the controller is hooked to the Thick Yellow coming out of the motor & the Thick Green coming out of the controller is hooked to the Thick Green coming out of the motor. The 5- wire plug coming out of the controller is hooked to the 5 wire plug coming out of the motor. The 3-wire throttle plug coming out of the controller is hooked to the supplied throttle (wire colors match). The Ignition switch plug coming out of the controller is hooked to a standard toggle switch. Here is a video, you can see my set up for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXLuc8YkwlQ

Their answer:

Dear friend
Pls check the attached picture, Pls contact the controller plug to your 3 Forward Reverse Switch ,that will be ok, pls help us try this,and let us knwo if all is ok later,Have a nice day


Ok, there was nothing in the directions about a 3 way forward reverse switch

...& I don't remember seeing a plug in coming from the controller, marked as such.
 

Bbqjoe

Banned
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
2
Location
Location, Location
You need to learn to speak Chinese so you can communicate better.

As a matter of fact, I think we'd all better learn Chinese soon. :D
 

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
Pls contact the controller plug to your 3 Forward Reverse Switch ,that will be ok, pls help us try this,and let us knwo if all is ok later,Have a nice day

...translate that to English & you get: inverted gear must be hooked up


How does anyone get "3 Forward Reverse Switch" out of "inverted gear"?

...& maybe it would of been helpful to include 3 Forward Reverse Switch = inverted gear

& maybe even "is necessary or will not work" in the wiring directions

So, CHONG CHONG CHONG

Yup, I got this figured out (I think)

Lets give this a try :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tyx5ra-O84
 

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
Good news & bad news,

it now works! :thumbsup:

& we have reverse

The problem now is,

it goes forward kinda slow but, really fast - BACKWARDS

First thoughts was

...just gotta flip the motor & the axle sprocket to the other side

simple enough, tedious but, a simple fix

but, while I was out towing yesterday I was thinkin',

You can change the direction of many brushed motors just by reversing the positive (+) & negative (-) power input cables

I wonder if that is possible or recommended for brushless motors

I do NOT want to just assume that it can (the two have very different technology)

I again, emailed the place I got the motor from, thanking them for their help & asking if the direction, of this motor, can be switched



*Hello,

Yes that was helpful. It now rotates. But, it goes slow forward & really fast in reverse

Can the Thick Blue & Thick Yellow wires that are coming from the motor be switched with Thick Blue wire & Thick Yellow wires that are coming from controller? Like blue to yellow or yellow to blue? Or is that NOT recommended?

Dear friend
Pls don't worry ,Pls contact the motor blue contact controller green,motor Green contact controller blue wires,yellow color wire is still contact to yellow wires,
And the motor Holzer wires ,pls swap blue and yellow wire ,that will be ok.Hope you can help us try it again
Have a nice day


OK, I think they said

"yes you can, this is how"

So, if I am translating this right

They say

...contact thick blue motor wire to thick green controller wire

...thick green motor wire to thick blue controller wire

...keep thick yellow motor wire connected to the thick yellow controller wire

The motor Holzer wires (again, if I my translation is correct)

...is the 5 wire plug that connects to the controller

...& their saying to also swap the blue & yellow wires on that plug in

Does this sound right?

Does anyone know if you can or it's recommended to reverse the direction of a brushless motor?
 

Bbqjoe

Banned
Messages
3,456
Reaction score
2
Location
Location, Location
Flip the whole mess around, put it on the front, and you'll have The first electric front wheel drive Kart. :D

Then move the steering to the back.

What do I know?
 

Functional Artist

Well-known member
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
139
Location
Toledo, Ohio
I wasn't super confident in my translation

so, I sent a "double check" message



*I want to make sure I understand your directions.

1. contact thick blue motor wire to thick green controller wire

2. contact thick green motor wire to thick blue controller wire

3. leave thick yellow motor wire contact to thick yellow controller wire

4. then on the 5-wire plug (swap the thin blue & the thin yellow wires) that means contact thin blue wire to thin yellow wire & thin yellow wire to thin blue wire?

This is correct?

Thank you for your help

Kevin


they sent back:


Yes,Pls help us try it again
Regard,

OK, I feel better about this now :thumbsup:

Don't wanna go cris-crossin' wires on a brand new brushless motor all "willy-nilly" like - without a clue

OK,

...Thick Blue & Thick Green wires are crossed

...Thin Blue & Thin Yellow wires are crossed too

also, made up a harness to run from the controller up to the "dash area" for the forward/reverse switch

...tinned the wire ends

...slid heat shrink onto wire (before soldering)

...solder (2) ends together

...slide heat shrink over splice

..shrink it down

repeat procedure for the (3) wires on plug end & then crimp (3) spade terminals on the other end of the wires going up to the (3) way (forward/reverse) switch

Until I find a proper one, we'll just use a micro switch for a (3) way (forward/reverse) switch for now

OK, lets give that a try :cheers2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXA-rrlZocc&t=34s
 

Attachments

  • SAM_4168.jpg
    SAM_4168.jpg
    219.1 KB · Views: 3
  • SAM_4169.jpg
    SAM_4169.jpg
    189.5 KB · Views: 4
  • SAM_4170.jpg
    SAM_4170.jpg
    188.2 KB · Views: 3
  • SAM_4171.jpg
    SAM_4171.jpg
    212 KB · Views: 3
Top