2014 - Project Bloody Knuckles

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andrewmacc

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I decided to dub it "Bloody Knuckles" because every step will be a battle, because it takes three times as long to get stuff done! Not a complaint, just that it's hard to entertain, teach, demonstrate, educate and build (and learn, myself) all at the same time! :lolgoku:

Also, I think it's very cool that we are designing this from the ground-up as our own one-off custom kart, not using other kart plans like many do! More satisfaction that way, in my eyes. Ideas and concepts will be snagged unabashedly, of course, but the culmination is the result of two heads knocking together trying to work as a student/teacher team! :surrender: Still got some frame squaring to do, the most important part.

This is a budgeted project that I've had the opportunity to lead with the kid, so unfortunately some of the blingy stuff is just not in the cards, but my personal approach is to make everything as uniquely as you can - not to the point of impracticality, but to the point where you can stand back and say you fabricated just about every possible piece of steel you could with your own two hands and a faint image in your brain.


Materials:
- 1.050" x .100"-wall HREW structural tubing.
- A mix of 1/4", 3/16" and 1/8", with as little of 1/4" as possible. I'd like to use mostly 1/8" and see if I can get my hill-billy dimple dies working on the shop press.

- 4.10/3.50 x 4" wheels and tires, split rim
- fixed axle, fixed frame (for now)
- Honda GC190 6HP for cheap from 4x4 community
- free cushioned tractor seat free from 4x4 community
- hopefully go-kart steering wheel as well, from 4x4 community
- 60T sprocket
- etc.
- custom exhaust

Tools:
- their Lincoln 180T running .030 fluxcore (bleh I miss my Miller).
- RogueFab Alpha air/hydraulic tube bender, using a sleeved die to bend the ~1" tube



I forgot to write the date down, but I have like no reception at their place, hopefully that's all fine and dandy..
Thank you guys, I appreciate your help. :cheers2:
 

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Doc Sprocket

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I'll give you a pass on the date, as I can clearly tell you're starting from scratch. But the face.... that disturbs me! ;)

Good luck, and happy building!
 

andrewmacc

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I'll give you a pass on the date, as I can clearly tell you're starting from scratch. But the face.... that disturbs me! ;)

Good luck, and happy building!

Fastest I've replied to a reply, but right now the thing I'm procrastinating is bed! Haha.

Thank you kindly, appreciated. I wasn't sure whether or not we were to include the date, and I was actually running out the door as we took the sign pictures!

I know I know, the pictures look more... normal.. when his face is simply blurred - gotta reinstall Photoshop, darn harddrive crashes. Unfortunately I can't show a direct face shot of him.

Time to download Photoshop I guess! :idea2:
 

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That's okay, I totally understand. It was simply a reference to a few too many weird movies I've seen! Do exactly what you have to sir!
 

andrewmacc

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Hey guys, we're still alive. I've been spread pretty thin with work, my own personal jobs, and school/exams, and I was on the boats in the harbour all last week (pic attached because who doesn't love a 1,000HP dual Cummins w/ turbos twin screw aluminum boat?!?!) I'm actually studying for a final exam right now so frankly - I'm procrastinating by posting here. Anyway:

I cut out a supremely overkill motor mount. I may try to take some of the weight out in select places, but I do like the security of the mount's weld area, so I may just take some weight out with holesaws in places.

Also, although this is a build thread in the competition section, I will continue to need some advice from some of you experts, such as:

I really enjoyed Fabroman's chassis with the way the rear portion of the frame actually bends upward, achieving a cool aesthetic but also effectively lowering the chassis to the ground. I simply didn't have the time necessary to have designed such a chassis with the time frame I had. If I were doing this myself in my garage, maybe!
Anyway, so I figured to achieve a decent but still low ride height, I could affix the rear axle tubing to the TOP of the chassis - like how some trucks are "spring under" axle, this would be "chassis under axle", lol!

I've attached a pic of what I mean. I don't want to permanently attach the axle until I put tires on the wheels and see how much clearance we get.
 

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Felineman

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I should rename mine BLOODY EVERYTHING, God knows I've cut myself many times, including almost taken my head off with grinder. Engine is only a 12HP by the looks of it.
 

andrewmacc

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Dang that engine is big!
I should rename mine BLOODY EVERYTHING, God knows I've cut myself many times, including almost taken my head off with grinder. Engine is only a 12HP by the looks of it.


Really? Hm. Doesn't seem that big, but I don't work with small motors. It's only a 6HP GC190, and it feels really light, so maybe the pic is deceiving. I'll see if I can pull up another pic.

Link here
http://i.imgur.com/xMV8NOYl.jpg


Felineman,

hahaha well I'm hoping I'll be the only one with bloody knuckles in this project. Last thing I, he, my boss or the family needs is for my little buddy to bash himself up for this project - that's my job! :lolgoku:
 

OzFab

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I figured to achieve a decent but still low ride height, I could affix the rear axle tubing to the TOP of the chassis - like how some trucks are "spring under" axle, this would be "chassis under axle", lol!

The only downside to that scenario is lack of space; on my kart (which is a Manco American Express clone BTW) the axle sits directly under the engine but, you won't be able to do that with the axle on top of the frame with the engine...
 

andrewmacc

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Okay, well.

I drilled the motor mount out and we tacked it into place. I only drilled the exact holes initially, this way everything can get built and tacked in where I would like the engine to sit, and afterward I will drill fore and aft of the holes and cut slits so that we can adjust chain tension from there.

I had promised him I'd be bringing a drilled motor mount, so the day of my shift, I woke up and realized, crap, I had like an hour to mark it all out and drill it and ALSO drop by the metal depot. I didn't have time to waste meticulously measuring the centers of the mounts and so on and so forth... so I stuck a piece of saran wrap over the scanner, held the motor so it didn't plunge through the glass top, and hit "SCAN". I was able to snip it out with scissors within seconds and center punch each hole with precision, and got them drilled out totally bang on.

So we tacked that in. We had some leftover plate, and since the axle is likely sitting on top of the chassis, we sketched out a spacer plate on the other side to keep it level, which I took home and zipped off with the torch with a fancy little curve on it. I also doodled up a way to take some weight out of the motor mount.
Note: before anyone mentions the t-shirt, I'm not the safety brigade, so I am mostly okay with irregular tacking with a t-shirt on. Any time there is constant tacking or full welding happening, I make him grab a fully sleeved shirt or jacket.

Then the week after (this past Wednesday), I got some 2"x1/4" flat bar, threw them in my brake press, tacked them to a stiffener piece and drilled straight through them with a 5/8" bit after beginning the pilot hole with a step bit. Like a total charm.


I made him do some math, like the evil man I am. :stir: I had already done it beforehand, but I had him measure out how much width the inner Cs, the spindle w/ bolt head and our desired spacer length, plus the measurement to the centerline of the rim to determine our total track width, then subtract that measurement twice from the rear track width to finally end up with the actual tubular axle length.

Then for giggles, we very lightly tacked everything together, partly for the milestone feel and partly to visualize how this will all come together. We will bend up the front axle to reduce the front ride height, and I will bend up saddle brackets to very securely attach the axle to the chassis.
Note: there's no caster or camber numbers in this arrangement, this was just a test fitting.


Also, it rained a lot. :) And for some reason I always seem to be fixing something.. :roflol:
 

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landuse

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Nice going Andrew. It is good to make him do the maths himself. It not only gets the brain going, but also will make him feel like he has made a valuable contribution to the build
 

andrewmacc

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Nice going Andrew. It is good to make him do the maths himself. It not only gets the brain going, but also will make him feel like he has made a valuable contribution to the build

I always try to toss him some math to do, but always do it in my head really quick first, I don't know if it's the autism or if he's also dyslexic but he constantly messes up feet and inches, and quarters (like if I say "measure out 1-3/4"", he'll very often measure out 1-1/4"). Typically it makes no difference because the number on the tape measure is the same whether he says "feet" or "inches" but one time we drew up some blueprints and he had everything laid out in feet. Took a little time out to explain just how big a 36 foot wide go kart would be. :lolgoku:

As long as it doesn't get him frustrated, I'll actually let him flounder a little bit, because there's a much more important sense of pride when he figures out the answer compared to when I lead him to it (horse to water, so to speak), which helps make him a little more confident.
Different working with a teen than a toddler (with even a semi age-appropriate mental maturity level for either) because a teen can use the victory to carry himself further with the project and responsibility. A toddler can just lash out in anxiety and it's just not helpful. Anyway blah blah I know.

We have some more tube and parts coming. Long story short the school informed us "oh yeah forgot to mention, all the parts need to be bought and paid for by May 15th", which caused quite the frantic scramble for the week before the due date. :ack2:

Anywho, so we tacked up the front axle just to get an idea, put a bend in it, added caster and camber.. With 0* spindles it causes around just less than 10* of camber which is quite a bit, so I may remake the spindles so that we have 0* camber 'cause we have the 10* of KPI built in already.

It's a pretty low kart, but it's gonna be a road kart since it's 1-wheel-drive, so no fields for this one.
The pic is just of me, being silly and making vroom vroom noises with my mouth already.

Threw on the tires (made sure to get high speed tires), just slipped the rims on (need bushings and nylocks), did a ton of measuring for a main hoop, the seat mounts and etc, so I've got lots of work to do (at home, grr). Made up some saddles to secure the axle permanently and securely, just gotta flap disc them nice and neat, may add gussets for the overhang to eliminate flex (it's all .100" tube though).
note: can anyone tell me if those are bushings or bearings in the front wheel assemblies?
 

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Felineman

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UMMMM 36 feet wide, sounds like mine its gonna be close to 60 Inches wide when I'm done but then again you only got small tires I have 15 inch tracks on each side plus a 32 Inch wide engine and transmission. Mind you I'm building a go anywhere vehicle including running over your old and busted carts TANK. RIPSAW watch out.
 

andrewmacc

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UMMMM 36 feet wide, sounds like mine its gonna be close to 60 Inches wide when I'm done but then again you only got small tires I have 15 inch tracks on each side plus a 32 Inch wide engine and transmission. Mind you I'm building a go anywhere vehicle including running over your old and busted carts TANK. RIPSAW watch out.

Well, to be fair, I'm sure we'll have as much into our total kart as you do into just the engine. :wai:

We decided not to make the seat adjustable, but we are obviously making it removable. So I drilled and welded some bushings into a tube crossmember for bolts to thread into the seat in the front; and in the rear, a piece of 1"x1" box tube slides perfectly through a slightly large square tube (part of the seat's original frame), so we're throwing on some flanges (which yeah permanently leaves the tube attached to the seat, but not the seat to the kart, so I'm okay with that).

I'll be frank and it sounds kinda rude, but I don't get paid to do the off-hour work AND I don't get paid enough to pull out my A-game on every bracket and tab considering I'm using up my consumables to do this at home, so I just slapped out some brackets with the grinder (I gotta fix my plasma cutter) semi-half-decent and I'll just have him grind them smoother so they match and look nice and neat. They're close, just need another 5 minutes with the grinder and a flapwheel.

Went for a bit of a 2:1-ish (something like 2.188:1) steering ratio so the steering arms are like 3.5" center to center. Something in that ballpark, long day! Just have to make the pitman arm at 1-5/8" center to center to match to get that ratio.

The arms were too small to fit into the press brake so I scored a line with a cutoff wheel, bent it in the vise with a deadblow and welded up the scored line hot enough to just barely visibly penetrate all the way through to the other side.

Have some parts on hold at the local Princess Auto, a 3/4" pillow block bearing, a shaft collar, some steel bushings, and some female 3/8"-24NF balljoints. 3/8" male rod ends would have been ideal, but the balljoints were $4.99 a pop and the rod ends were like $12.99.

More to come this week.
 

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Felineman

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I don't mean to sound rude just my humor, I'm basically using almost everything I can scrounge up. I get 300 month for materials so trust me you guys have more budget then I do. Even though I've been doing automotive and machine work all my life this is actually the second project I have done in my life so its still a learning experience. Mind you I've gone over the top and keep thinking I've bitten off more then I can chew this years build off.
 

andrewmacc

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I don't mean to sound rude just my humor, I'm basically using almost everything I can scrounge up. I get 300 month for materials so trust me you guys have more budget then I do. Even though I've been doing automotive and machine work all my life this is actually the second project I have done in my life so its still a learning experience. Mind you I've gone over the top and keep thinking I've bitten off more then I can chew this years build off.

Oh don't even think twice about it. Firstly, I'm young but I've been around web forums since about 2002-ish, secondly, I'm pretty used to and very familiar with some big bad web forums (ie 250k members) where nobody really plays nice, and thirdly, even if I hadn't, my own friends are very ruthless and cutting with their humour. :cheers2: Last thing anyone can do is ruffle my feathers.


Here are just a couple images from today and yesterday. The family wanted to bring it to a 4H project fair, so we cobbled up a steering hoop, bearing mount, column support, and tacked up some tie rods. We never ended up having time to actually tack the steering arms, and I didn't want to willy-nilly talk them without throwing an angle finder, we'll be shooting for 85* from the spindle bolt for forward facing steering arms. That should supply us with sufficient angle to satisfy Ackermann's principle, but I will also throw a tape from the rear axle centerline through the arms and see if we can't get an exact number.

The hoop might stay but it's a little short around his legs (he's about 6'1") and it would be easy to reuse that tube if we wanted to make another a little taller.

Bearing mount is incomplete (and off center! :ack2: We ran out of time, we tossed it in the truck with tack welds still cooling down), bottom column support incomplete, etc etc, but I'll be darned if it's not looking more like a go-kart.

And will supply some more pics when it's not, y'know, 4:00am.
 

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