1983 B&S Flathead (130200 series) Breakdown/Rebuild

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Hellion

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There's some truth in an engine with new rings being quite difficult to start.

If you've seen The Gods Must Be Crazy, the cantankerous Land Rover known as "the antichrist" takes center stage. It's pressed into emergency duty after having new rings installed and it takes a horse and three men to start her the first time. Andrew Steyn is warned not to ever let her stall or he'll never get her started again...

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/02a48409-52cf-46ff-a58b-be71036f23e1
 

Hellion

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That is the antichrist from the same movie. :D

Notice it's not running. :oops:
 

LeeMajors

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Ok so here's the good and the bad.... The Good - Last night I finally got her running good enough to break-in the new rings, etc... The Bad - In the process of breaking in the engine I toasted my new clutch.

As I mentioned prior, when I leave the engine running on the stand it vibrates across the garage. So in order to combat this minor issue I opted to put the kart on the floor and chock the rear wheels with the front bumper against the wall... bada-bing! Problem solved. In this position I started her up set the throttle at about 1/4-1/2 throttle (clutch did NOT seem to be engaging at this point) basically running smoothly but without moving on it's own. Loosely set a mental timer for about 45mins and went about my other obligations. Well.... 45mins later I went outside to shut her down and immediately felt the HEAT emanating from the engine. At first I just figured it was the engine/exhaust pipe, you know, normal small engine heat!? Well that couldn't have been further from the truth. This heat was EXCESSIVE! Like broiler on the oven hot! AND it seemed to be coming, not off of the engine itself, or the exhaust pipe, (although both of them were hot in their own right) But off of the chain guard and SEAT (I have it screwed into the seat ever so slightly)!? I mean the SEAT was so hot you couldn't touch it!? Anyway, all this heat had actually spawned from the clutch!!! Which in turn heated up EVERYTHING else around it! Especially the crankshaft, chain, sump/side cover, seat, and most notably, the chain guard! I couldn't believe it!? Apparently at some point during the break-in process, the engine itself picked up a bit in RPM's, and partially engaged the clutch!? Enough in fact that it was, in essence, slipping the clutch for an extended period of time! I'm guessing 30-40mins just from the sheer amount of HEAT coming off of it!? When it all cooled off it had that powdery dry BURNT look to it, as did the chain, and chain guard too! Live and Learn right?

So now I'm in the market for a new side cover and a new clutch or possibly a torque converter..? I might even just grab a racing type clutch since I'm already going to be revving this thing way past 3k, idk? I forgot to mention that while I was at that local kart shop getting the carb jets the guy there wound up hooking me up with an awesome Dyno Cams cam for FREE! I forget exactly which model it was (it's got an 86 stamped on it?) but he said it'd be PERFECT for the setup I'm running, even with the stock flywheel. And I got the coil bracket that allows me to run the 3hp flywheel along with an offset flywheel key to make up for the timing differences in the two flywheels. Anyway, the reason I need a new side cover is so I can install the new cam. And it'd be nice to have the bolt holes for a torque converter IF I wind up going that route. Anywho, I feel like a torque converter may be in order just because of my size? But I'd like to research the racing clutches a bit more because I'm sure I can pick a lightly used one for much cheaper than a new TC.

Pics.... I know you guys are waiting on pics and as soon as I get a chance I will UL them. I probably have at least 100 or so pics since the last step I documented in the build process so it'll take me a bit to resize all of them but I'll get to it ASAP.

Lmk what you guys think about this clutch scenario and what might be my best option from here? I weigh in right around 300lbs and the kart itself is probably 100-125lbs..? Plus my 4yr old is almost 40lbs and we live on a very hilly piece of land so I really need all the torque I can get. So yea fellas any insights/suggestions would really be helpful. thx in advance!
 

chancer

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That is a Bummer!
I guess we all learned to put the kart on stands and let the wheels spin.
Thanks for the tip :(
Not to kick you while you're down, but for the other members as well (I never thought of it till now) But a good idea also would be to just disconnect the chain

Sounds like A good time to just buy a Torque Converter instead. Plus it will help with the needed low end torque for 450-500 Lbs and hills.
 

Hellion

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DISASTER! Oh nooo!



I mounted a Predator to my Ken-Bar kart for break-in but there was no clutch or chain connected.

I watched it though while it ran (and read a few book chapters) and varied the speed all over the place (except full throttle) as is often recommended. Now this was a box stock engine with the factory throttle lever still in place so it would keep the setting you placed it in.

If your engine did not, in fact, run at a speed that partially (or completely) engaged the clutch, you most definitely roasted the clutch bushing. They say place a couple of drops of motor oil on the bushing every hour or two...but that's with the kart being driven and stationary idling kept to a minimum--I mean standing still, that's no fun.

Ouch. Say it ain't so, man. :eek::p:cornut:
 

LeeMajors

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lmao! Yea I'm pretty sure it's toast... It's engaged all the time now. Or darn close to it. And with the kart on the stand now, when I spin the tires you can hear the clutch like "scraping" off of itself, if that makes sense? Idk? Whatevers going on, it's NOT good. Lol! At least the engines broken in now though!

So tell me this guys, what's the best way to get a CHEAP torque converter (of some quality) and is there ANY way by which to mount one without having the bolt holes in the crankcase cover or do I need to find that type of cover?
 

Hellion

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...So tell me this guys, what's the best way to get a CHEAP torque converter (of some quality) and is there ANY way by which to mount one without having the bolt holes in the crankcase cover or do I need to find that type of cover?

Cheap and Chinese? Fleabay. Someone will chime in with the link for the auction. I think it's somewhere around $70.00 shipped. It's a good deal and those who've bought it have no complaints as I understand it.

I think the 4-bolt hole sump cover is ideal but I bet you (or someone you know) could fab up some kind of mounting plate that interfaces between the engine and the TAV (Torq-A-Verter). Maybe it's welded to the engine mount, a vertical piece of sheet steel, maybe 1/4 thick?

I'd say obtain the TAV first so you can start brainstorming on alternatives.
 

LeeMajors

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Cheap and Chinese? Fleabay. Someone will chime in with the link for the auction. I think it's somewhere around $70.00 shipped. It's a good deal and those who've bought it have no complaints as I understand it.

I think the 4-bolt hole sump cover is ideal but I bet you (or someone you know) could fab up some kind of mounting plate that interfaces between the engine and the TAV (Torq-A-Verter). Maybe it's welded to the engine mount, a vertical piece of sheet steel, maybe 1/4 thick?

I'd say obtain the TAV first so you can start brainstorming on alternatives.


Thanks Hellion... as always, I appreciate the reply and am finally able to get back to this project so I'll check out the good'ol Fleabay for the TAV.

Now, I like to wish everyone a Happy belated New Year and a Merry belated X-mas! And also apologize for going MIA for so long. Right around the time I'd gotten the engine running and the kart together, I was having an issue with my car that had to be addressed immediately, before the weather got any worse, so that project wound up taking precedence and the kart wound up being neglected (along with this thread). Anyway, the car's been sorted out (now making 350hp at the wheels on 18psi from a SOHC 4cyl hehehe) and I'm finally ready to get back at this kart project!

So here's where I'm at: I roasted my nice new clutch while breaking in the motor. It kept vibrating off of the kart stand while trying to break it in so I got the ingenious idea to park the kart up against my garage wall. And then with the throttle open somewhere between quarter and half throttle, and the brand new clutch ever so slightly engaged.... I left the engine to "break-in" for about 55mins :thumbsup:
Smh.... what an idiot I am. Needless to say when I came back out to check on it, the clutch was nearly red hot and making the most God awful whining sound I've ever heard from a mechanical apparatus. I then proceeded to shut it down and allow it to cool off only to find that the clutch was now completely bound up... and I'm talking badly, like friction welded bad. lol! It had gotten so hot that I was actually concerned that I'd maybe damaged the engine and/or some of it's seals!? But fortunately for me lady luck was on my side in that dept.

Anyway, now I've got a great motor, thoroughly broken-in, but no way to run it. So I'm in the market now for a torque converter. I lucked up right before I went MIA and found a sump cover at my local u-pull-it that actually came with an OEM torque converter attached to it!? The only problem, of course, was that I was there for something else and didn't have the tools I needed to pull the entire setup, go figure? So I left with the sump cover, and just today, finally had the opportunity to pull the half of the torque converter off of the cover. And now I'm not sure if they make a main shaft seal that fits this sump cover and that allows me to run it without the OEM torque converter connected!? Which is where you gentlemen come in...

I'll post a pic of the new sump cover and hopefully one of you has seen it or had some experience with this type of sump cover and can tell me if they make a shaft seal for it?... Or how one might go about finding out? Thank you all in advance and sorry for neglecting the thread for so long.
 

LeeMajors

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Here's the new cover:
Now as I'm sure you all can see this cover has the provisions for bolting in a TC but my question is regarding the shaft seal, there in the center? Anyway thx for.any/all replies in advance
 

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mckutzy

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Usually with mechanical oil seals like those.... just measure the seat hole Dia/depth, and then the shaft journal dia where it rides on....
Most industrial bearing shops sell seals aswell.... ask them for that... or might be able to find a stock part....but they're about the same....
 

chancer

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I have a goofy Briggs that came off a Pressure washer. Anyway it was fixed by the PO and had the wrong model date code. The pull start said 5.5HP the air box said 6.0HP and the Date code on the valve cover did not match anything else...
Anyway I needed a seal and after a longer story... I ended up at my local Napa.
I brought in the side cover the guy took some measurements and I got a seal.

Go to Napa.
 

chancer

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Not everyone lives in Cal. Napa is a pretty fer piece for some of us! :rolleyes::cool:

Luckily there is a Napa Auto parts in Leheighton Pa. on Blakeslee Blvd.
So it should not be an issue.
Texas however well sorry about your luck... God just hates Texas!
 

LeeMajors

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You guys are f'n AWESOME! I truly LOVE this community of like minded folks,... Thank You, to everyone that replied.

And Chancer, let me find out you live close to me somewhere in PA and not really CA? lol! I actually frequent that exact Napa quite regularly (for car stuff) so I'll update everyone on the seal status as soon as I get a chance to swing by there again. And again thx for the replies fellas!
 

chancer

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And Chancer, let me find out you live close to me somewhere in PA and not really CA? lol! I actually frequent that exact Napa quite regularly

No I am in CA. But google is pretty Amazing, when I want to shut down a Poboy!
 

LeeMajors

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No I am in CA. But google is pretty Amazing, when I want to shut down a Poboy!

Lmao!

Hey fellas sorry it's been SOOOOOO LONG since I've posted anything... as some of you may know (i can't remember if I ,mentioned it and am too lazy to read the entire thread?) I roasted the centrifugal clutch while breaking in the motor and winter came and I just got tied up with the car for awhile, but.... now, I'm getting back at it! And I've since acquired a TIG welder, the proper crankcase cover (to mount a torque converter), the crankshaft seal (for said CC cover), and a new cam! So I'll be posting updates in the coming weeks. The TC should be here this week and tbh I didn't fork out the cash for the GoPowerSports kit; I just went and got a Flea-Bay 30 series to see how it even works. So we'll see what happens?

Now the real reason I wanted to post is because I have a question for the more knowledgeable members and veterans of the forum alike:

Realistically.... What kind of engine would I need to create enough TQ/HP to make this kart capable of donuts/"drifting" (on pavement) under the weight of let's say 450-550lbs? I alone weigh-in around 300lbs, so take that for what its worth... I mean are we talking shifter-kart status? Big 2-stroke (idk 500-600cc?) or what? I don't necessarily need it to be fast in terms of top speed but I want this thing to rip and I just don't think a 5hp Flatty is gonna get'er done? So the current kart is going to be strictly for my son and I'm going to hack up the other frame I have and build something more suitable for me, but I want an idea of how much power's going to be required to get the desired effect? Thx in advance for your input!
 
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