SOLVED->Broke off Bolt in ARC con rod-extraction tips?

CEB

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UPDATE**VICTORY IS MINE**

Judicious application of heat with a propane torch solved the problem.Wrapped the rod in canvas padding,locked it a vice and put šŸ”„ to it.When the oil boiled out after a few short cycles of heat and twist on the bolt with vice grips it finally broke loose.No visible galling /contaminated threading of any kind.
New bolts and gaskets in the mail,it will be wearing the rod before it returns to duty as a heavily upgraded yard basher. If there is interest I will post some pics of the upgrades done when back together.

Thanks for all your time folks.
ā€ā€----------------ORIGINAL BELOW-------------
Hey Fellow Cool Kids
So,I am "refreshing" a Yerf 3203 .."for the kids"(12/13,both giants for their age).Its had opened up lungs for a bit,carb, header,filter etc.
Any who,being the awesome Dad I am,the HF Pred 212 (hemi) now has billet flywheel,.010 head gasket,22lb valve springs,CS grind Dynocam,gov/oil sensor delete and WOULD HAVE this nice ARC con rod....you know...for the kids,honey.

However..I managed to snap a d#@$ bolt off in the con rod.Blame the HF torque wrench,thats what I did.
I have the stock rod in for now,just so I could run the motor on the bench for 20 mins to bake the hi-temp paint i put on the header(got tired of watching the $50 rust away).The Kart is stripped of wiring,lights etc as I custom built some tie rods out of steel pipe /welded heim joints(jumping ditches is not good for all thread stock rods...standard QC method here) ,beefed up the spindles with some gussets,fully welded the spindle brackets on the a arms and getting a nice 100 can Rustoleum paint job.
I CANT GET THE D@#$ BOLT OUT.
Ive never fooled with aluminum anything,so forgive my ignorance. With such a small workpiece I dont want to drill/tap and the bolt seems brittle to the point I am worried to weld a nut on it,as I dont want the last little nubbin to break off in the rod.
Can you safely use heat(Im thinking mini propane torch,not MAP gas) on the aluminum to get it out maybe?
Vice grips,of which I have many breeds,just round off no matter how tight I get them.
Tips?Tricks?Ancient machinery gods that accept scrap metal sacrifices?
Also-thoughts on the stock rod,safe AT ALL to put into play around our yard,or no bueno?Any one run a stock rod hard at 6-7k RPM?
I dont think they have enough room to wind it out ,but children are as impressive as pickled adults when it comes to destructive testing.
 
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panchothedog

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Your stock rod won't live at 7k and probably not at 6k, but certainly longer at
6 than 7. Does the kart still have the torque converter drive in it? Those do help a little in limiting top end RPM as compared to a simple centrifugal clutch. Once they get into high gear they tax the engine pretty hard and don't really let them wind out. As far as your broken bolt, I am no expert on aluminum but it sounds like you are running out of options. I have 4 engines that I built using the ARC rod and a harbor freight torque wrench. It is in inch lbs no foot lbs,
but I am sure you know that. I honestly can't imagine snapping one off. You might be in the market for a new one. If I were you and couldn't save it, with the money already invested in the engine I would spring for a new one rather than risk sending the stock one out the side of the block.
 

CEB

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Yup I should have mentioned that,running a bone stock 30 series W/green spring in "torkiest" posistion.Lol yeah I was using the IN/LBs.
It really boggles my mind.I wonder if there is something up with the the bolt metal, the way it is crumbling when I try to vice grip it.Wouldnt think it would be stuck with the 30wt oil on it.Hell,maybe I picked up a shaving or something somehow on my bench when I seated the bolt and galled the threads.I dunno.

Dont mistake my intention-
Im not interested in leaving the stock rod in,just interested if I could let a kid rip around the yard,and any one HAS as I cant find any info other than "dont".
And I agree,the 65 bucks isnt the problem.Just frustrating .Imma take a run at it tomorrow and go in order of removal attempts from "this shouldnt break stuff" to "yeah this is gonna melt" .If it gets to the latter there will be a new one on the way before hand.

I will get the bolt out-whether or not the aluminum rod survives my stubborn nature is another thing.
By the way,Thank You for your time.
 

panchothedog

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So you do know about torque converters. With that spring and in that position,
It will keep the clutch from opening up thus letting the engine wind up easier.
Kinda strange what you are describing about the bolt. I always thought that they used ARP bolts which are if not the best you can buy certainly up there.
I hope you just got that one in a million bad one that slipped through quality control. I say that because I am going to be building at least one more engine and possibly two on the next few months. Like you building something for your
kids, I am doing it for my grandkids. Being retired I really fell for it, hook line
and sinker.
 

CEB

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So you do know about torque converters. With that spring and in that position,
It will keep the clutch from opening up thus letting the engine wind up easier.
Kinda strange what you are describing about the bolt. I always thought that they used ARP bolts which are if not the best you can buy certainly up there.
I hope you just got that one in a million bad one that slipped through quality control. I say that because I am going to be building at least one more engine and possibly two on the next few months. Like you building something for your
kids, I am doing it for my grandkids. Being retired I really fell for it, hook line
and sinker.
I agree about the bolt-I am more inclined to believe it was an outside issue i.e. thread contamination or something in that vein.Meaning I am sure in one way or the other,the onus is on me(notice I am not bashing manufacturers or parts,other than a light poke at my trusty HF wrench).

While not retired I tend to dive into projects and hobbies pretty whole heartedly, love doing this stuff and teaching my sons.And spoiling the suckers cause I sure never had this stuff!

Just need to get this one done so I can start welding up a new enclosure for a hunting tripod that refuses to stay vertical(current one bent all out wompus from getting blown over),got a million things I need to do but OCD wont let this one go till the motors screaming and it gets 2 or 3 feet of air going up a steep 5' county ditch into the yard.

Yeah,they have helmets.šŸ‘šŸ‘šŸ‘
 

CEB

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Weld a nut to what is left. You may have to do it a few times.
Thats what I am gonna do last-right now have some PB Blaster soaking on it.Dont know that it will do anything the 30wt wouldnt but will try it in a few hours.If not then the welder comes back out.

Thanks for the reply sir.
 

CEB

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How are you running the stock rod with one of the two bolts broken off? Only one bolt holding the rod cap in place?
I'm glad for you that $65 isn't a problem, because all I can say is, follow me down the reliability trail.................
ARC Billet Alum Rod (3.328"+.020) Predator 212cc Read for Application | eBay
Wait...what?
I think you misunderstood-one of the ARC bolts snapped.I put the the stock rod back in for ....reasons.
As far as the $65 dollars goes,I dont know how to defend myself there.Ive been gainfully employed since I was 12 .Im sorry?
 

Willie1

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Wait...what?

As far as the $65 dollars goes,I dont know how to defend myself there.Ive been gainfully employed since I was 12 .Im sorry?
My thoughts about $65. It's nice to be able to spend money on things we CHOOSE, not NEED . . .

$65 could very well be a big deal for a single mother to have to spend on keeping her 20 year old car rolling so she can keep her job or food for her kids on the table.

BUT . . . An "adult" probably shouldn't be playing with a go kart, which is basically a luxury kids toy, if $65 is a major purchase,
or is the difference in a bill being paid. While we try to get the most value for our money and not buy parts twice - the bottom line is that a kart is a luxury (and probably expensive) toy, and if spending money on them is a problem - you are probably on the wrong forum. :unsure:

I know personally it is nice to be retired with some "disposable funds" that allows me to play with my TOYS, but I can
tell you that certainly has not always been the case. IMO you should pick hobbies you can afford without causing
hardship to paying your bills. I remember when $65 was my 2 week food budget. Now I rarely get out of taking my G/F
to Applebees for $65 - money well spent, since she doesn't complain when I buy the $300 Tillotson over the $120
Harbor Fright Predator. LOL
 
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madprofessor

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That's my own goof, misread the big picture. You say one of the ARC bolts snapped, so I guess there's a broken-off bolt sticking out of the ARC rod, while the stock rod's back in with both of its own 2 bolts.
Does that mean that the ARC rod came with 2 new bolts as usual, and one of those new bolts broke off? My first thought had been about the wrong type of bolt being used, and maybe not properly lubricating the threads before putting it in. Also, maybe the precise install instructions not being followed as to equal back/forth incremental tightening of the bolts, then backing off completely, then torque the rest of the way to final spec. The proper stretching of the special bolts is what gets them locked in tight, has to be done that way. Watch the ARC video below where the instructor explains bolt stretching.............
Connecting Rod Bolts - YouTube
 

CEB

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That's my own goof, misread the big picture. You say one of the ARC bolts snapped, so I guess there's a broken-off bolt sticking out of the ARC rod, while the stock rod's back in with both of its own 2 bolts.
Does that mean that the ARC rod came with 2 new bolts as usual, and one of those new bolts broke off? My first thought had been about the wrong type of bolt being used, and maybe not properly lubricating the threads before putting it in. Also, maybe the precise install instructions not being followed as to equal back/forth incremental tightening of the bolts, then backing off completely, then torque the rest of the way to final spec. The proper stretching of the special bolts is what gets them locked in tight, has to be done that way. Watch the ARC video below where the instructor explains bolt stretching.............
Connecting Rod Bolts - YouTube
Im sure I goofed something-no harm no foul.I tend to lean towards me picking up something in a thread somehow,as it snapped around 140lbs.Who knows.Old news to me now,Im over it.Lol
 

CEB

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My thoughts about $65. It's nice to be able to spend money on things we CHOOSE, not NEED . . .

$65 could very well be a big deal for a single mother to have to spend on keeping her 20 year old car rolling so she can keep her job or food for her kids on the table.

BUT . . . An "adult" probably shouldn't be playing with a go kart, which is basically a luxury kids toy, if $65 is a major purchase,
or is the difference in a bill being paid. While we try to get the most value for our money and not buy parts twice - the bottom line is that a kart is a luxury (and probably expensive) toy, and if spending money on them is a problem - you are probably on the wrong forum. :unsure:

I know personally it is nice to be retired with some "disposable funds" that allows me to play with my TOYS, but I can
tell you that certainly has not always been the case. IMO you should pick hobbies you can afford without causing
hardship to paying your bills. I remember when $65 was my 2 week food budget. Now I rarely get out of taking my G/F
to Applebees for $65 - money well spent, since she doesn't complain when I buy the $300 Tillotson over the $120
Harbor Fright Predator. LOL
Indeed.I do pretty well,not wealthy but well enough to have the hobbies I have and support 3 kids.I would say "and a wife" but Hell even though financially I make more,she runs the roost lol.Plus,she works as well.But I agree,hobby machining/welding,reloading,electronics-not stuff to dabble in if you are strapped for cash constantly.
Like most,I work for everything I have.
 

panchothedog

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I think growing up without much ( expensive toys like go karts ) as it sounds like many of us did, it just makes it that much more fun to somewhat spoil kids and grandkids. I can still remember a bicycle shop that sold brand new karts, $100.
This was in 1958 and I was 10 years old. $100 might as well have been a million, either figure was so far out of reach it was only a dream. Today I own five karts, one mini bike and two trailers to drag them around on and I don't regret for one minute the money spent on them. I do every now and then thank the GOOD LORD for allowing me to have achieved a place in life where I have the ability to make such expenditures.
 

Denny

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Wait you torqued that little tiny bolt to 140 ft/lbs? Big block Chevy or Chrysler hemi mains donā€™t even get torqued to that!!
25-30 ft/lbs should be max! Are you sure you werenā€™t supposed to do in/lbs?
 

Willie1

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Going to kick the monkeys cage and possibly start a little poo fight.
Pretty much the going rate for a "premium" rod is $65 and up.
This is for a billet rod, bearings and bolts.
Giving the cost of the raw aluminum, multiple precise forging/machining operations and the cost of bearings -
how much budget is left to source premium rod bolts?
Not accusing anybody of anything, but realistically -
at $65 is there money in the budget left for quality controlled bolts?
 

Willie1

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He, he, he, giggle giggle. You said monkeys and poo fight in the same sentence!
I went with "poo fight" so everyone would understand what I meant.
For instance, if I had said "road-apple rodeo" - well, that's a Texas thing,
and not everyone would have understood . . . :sneaky:
 

CEB

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Wait you torqued that little tiny bolt to 140 ft/lbs? Big block Chevy or Chrysler hemi mains donā€™t even get torqued to that!!
25-30 ft/lbs should be max! Are you sure you werenā€™t supposed to do in/lbs?
Lmao.IN/LBS you. Absolutely IN/Lbs.I have 3 different Torque wrenches,the clicky IN/LBs is half the size of my clicky FT/LBs and not even remotely similar to my tension based dial wrench.
 

CEB

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Going to kick the monkeys cage and possibly start a little poo fight.
Pretty much the going rate for a "premium" rod is $65 and up.
This is for a billet rod, bearings and bolts.
Giving the cost of the raw aluminum, multiple precise forging/machining operations and the cost of bearings -
how much budget is left to source premium rod bolts?
Not accusing anybody of anything, but realistically -
at $65 is there money in the budget left for quality controlled bolts?
You Absolutley will cause eyeballs to twich ,beer to be spilled and possibly small puppies to be kicked if you so much as SUGGEST that someone,somewhere definitely absolutely not me has another cart running with GRADE 8 bolts in the rod cap.Its not possible,it wont work,and now you have started a riot and possibly maimed an innocent bystander with the explosion that is going to be caused by your rattle trap death kart.
That said,my replacement bolts get here Saturday .And then some more next week sometime cause I misread the email that said I could not reorder them cause they were out of stock as saying "we didnt send these to you " and ordered more from a different supplier.In my defense ,I went to public schools.
My wife is just glad her new car gets paid for,the magic light switches produce light,and the ice box is full.New house on the way.Along with fully clothed semi-civilized teenagers(braces aint cheap).And also glad Im not occupying a bar stool in the ol'murder spot on the back roads.So I have my hunting,shooting,building,whatever I want within reason.With the added benefit of a practical at home education for the youngins when my kids are hanging with me.
So ..my hobby budget may not be your budget,you may be much better off.Or not.
But hell as long as a man covers his responsibilities who cares if his budget is $20 for a junker and scrap yard parts.
If he gets that junker rollin,the KID dont care,I promise.
(And as far as safety of said hypothetical kid-if any of you can hot rod a motor to unsafe levels with $20 and scrap parts,TEACH ME YOUR WAYS)
 
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