First Go Kart - Need advice

[jshaw1988]

Hey guys, new to the forum.

I picked up a Murray Red go kart early this week and am looking for some guidance/advice.

Biggest issue I have is a traction issue. The kart has been basically unmodified besides the motor as best I can tell. The dead axle seems like a very common config on less expensive karts and I have to suspect they generally work well.

However, I can't get power to stay planted anywhere. Pavement (I know these are not street tires but still), I will almost instantly spin the tire until traction builds. Grass is very similar, I have to ease into the throttle so as not to spin. Even then all it takes is a gentle slope or a patch of grass taller than 3 inches to stall the kart and spin the wheel. I have a few bare patches of clay in my yard and even they dont give the grip I'd expect from these tires, I just dig a hole in no time.

My question is, is there a better configuration for me to use to grant more grip? Different sprockets for different gear ratios? Turf tires? Both? Something else entirely? It sure is fun while it's moving but significantly less fun once it stalls and I have to get out to pull it back to where I can get grip again. As it rides now I am very unimpressed and if I can't remedy this issue it'll have to go in favor of something with a live axle.

Second question is steering. I have great steering to the left, enough to also stall the kart unless its really moving. To the right is mostly a lazy curve to the right. This is intended to be driven by my kids and that wont due. I don't see anything beyond the physical limitations of the swing of the wheels that should stop it from turning well to the right, so why can't I get a good right turn? Is this type of issue remedied with the tie rods, by adjusting them to where center at the wheel is started further to the left?


Specs are as follows;

Predator 212 non-hemi (2 days old)
60t axle sprocket
10t clutch sprocket.
Carlisle Super Lug rear tires 13" tall


Thanks in advance!

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

I can’t say why it’ll turn left better, that’s extremely odd with one wheel peel karts.
I can however suggest replacing your tires. Take a close look a them all over, I bet they’re gray, hard, and riddled with cracks. It sounds like simply dry rotted tires to me. If you’re not sure, post some clear close up pics of your tires.

 

[jshaw1988]

To clarify, are you suggesting replacing the fronts for better turns or rears for better traction?

The drive wheel is less than a day old, it's certainly not dry. maybe I'll try less air to get more tread on the ground in the rear tires.

With the steering, it turns left wonderfully, even at full speed, its purely a mechanical issue there. The tab at the bottom of the shaft that the linkage is bolted to is oriented slightly toward the left, think 11 or 1130. I plan to disconnect the two links from the steering shaft to see what's the limiting factor, but it doesn't make sense that the wheels would move so far to the left and so little to the right.

From an overhead perspective, when turning the wheels to the left, I would estimate they max out at 930 or 10, where turning to the right might yield 1230 or at best, 100. It's very severe, it is not just a minor discrepancy.

I am out of town through the rest of the weekend but I will get some pics when I get back. All I was digging for with the post was someone who could answer what tires provide the best grip on turf, and what component limits the swing of the wheels.

Thanks!

 

[JTSpeedDemon]

Ah, Ok. Nevermind what I said then. That's WEIRD.
I got nothing else, I'm sure someone else will pop in.

 

[jshaw1988]

It's bizarre, that's for sure.

Full confession I have not greased the joints since I got it, it's entirely possible its just stuck once it gets to that spot and greasing will solve it.

I SHOULD have gone over it a little better before jumping on it but I had already taken a few days to install a new engine and reassemble the brakes and install the tire. The kids were anxious to ride, almost as much as I was LOL

 

[landuse]

I think you are just geared too low. I would maybe try a 54T sprocket. It will reduce the torque and the "spinability" of the drive tyre.

You could also get larger rear tyres and leave the sprockets the same. This will also increase the gearing.

 

[jshaw1988]

I wondered if the gearing was yielding too much torque compared to the original motor.

It still makes me wonder if the tires are an issue though. When with easing into the throttle its extremely easy to lose grip. Any suggestions on better tires?

Also I wonder if I need taller FRONT tires as well? They don't seem to roll well in, well, anything. So maybe taller tires would have less drag?

 

[itsid]

I think we need a picture of your kart..
one from the rear and one from the front showing us the steering linkages.

Chances are it's just a bad setup, and that - in case of a two seater kart -
the weight imbalance helps in left turns and acts against you in right hand turns.
we'll have to see it in order to get a better idea.

traction:
well if that's a cent clutch it should actually work well,
if you installed a torque converter you have made a mistake I'm afraid.
(one wheel peel and TC are not playing well together)
it'd also explain the left vs right speed thing..
the left rear is more than likely the driven wheel
and the additional forces reduce the load on the wheel in left and increase the load in right hand turns.
causing the TC to shift and the rpms to drop more significantly.
maybe so much so, that the cornering radius grows thanks to understeer.

'sid

 

[jshaw1988]

Sid, it is a clutch not a tc.

As noted, the steering is not a weight imbalance, in that I'm 100% positive. The physical swing when steering to the left is significantly more than the right. The kart is not "pushing" even being driven. It simply does not swing the wheels nearly as far to the right. I will get pics of the setup when I get back home Monday.

The steering and traction concerns are absolutely independent issues, I support had statement by confirming that, under all circumstances, the kart does not turn the wheels equally. Whether it's moving or not, weighted or not, the angles produced by left turn and right turn are not the same by any stretch.

The traction concern is that the left wheel, which is indeed the driven wheel, is very easy to lose traction with. Even weighted with 2 adults. With that concern, I am seeking information as to which is MORE likely to cause the issue. The small diameter front wheels (don't know the size but considerably smaller than rear), the tread not being ideal for the application, or the gearing. I am okay with pursuing a couple remedies as long as I have confidence that this situation is abnormal.

If the gearing is most suspect I am inclined to change the drive gear as the clutch is who knows how old and much easier to change so I'd be more inclined to up the tooth count to change the ratio.

This is a link to the rear tires to give an idea of the tread. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005O5V8DE/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_SKSnFbFPP87XG

My question with them is, what is most ideal for traction on turf?

Again I know it is impossible to tell specifics without pics of the actual kart, but I thought descriptions might get me started anyway.

Either way, appreciate the info and I'll get pics to share when I get back. Thanks Sid!

 

[itsid]

...I have great steering to the left, enough to also stall the kart unless its really moving. ...

What now, stalling in right turns or no?

if it is, it's NOT JUST a steering issue, stalling means too big of a torque request from the wheel;
hence us asking for pics

And with that I will be waiting for those

'sid

 

[jshaw1988]

Here's my pics. They show the tread of the drive wheel, the front wheels at full turn right and left, and the kart as a whole.

In the pics of the front wheels you can see just how much of a difference there is in the angle at which they stop.

 

[itsid]

Make sure none of the three(?) screws holding the steering wheel
hitting against the steering wheel hub
the killswitch tab under the steering wheel is a good candidate to catch a throughbolt
but that doesn't appear to be a kelchcorp steering wheel..
so hub and screws I think
(maybe bolts.. then there'll be a cap to remove on the hub of the steering wheel)

especially since it appears the steering sits a tad low,
easiest fix would be a washer for the upper bushing to lift the whole assembly up a bit.

If you cannot find anything there,
remove both tie rods for now,
check each spindle and the steering column individually.
and you'll surely find the binding part.

[EDIT]
Wait.. if my eyes aren't playing tricks on me.. the left linking arm on the spindle is bent.
up and to the right I'd say (hard to tell for sure)
remove both spindles from the kart,
put them side by side and bend the left spindle back to a perfect mirrored copy of the right one.
I think that might do the trick.

'sid

 

[jshaw1988]

That.... is a great catch. I can't believe I hadn't seen it yet. I will get a good look at it when I get home. Next step would have been to take the linkage apart and move the parts independently and see what binds. That might just be the ticket.

Now as to my traction concern. Any suggestions? Is my tread too aggressive for grass? Front wheels too small and too easy to stall? Torque too high?

 

[Karts of Kaos]

i think the reason that the kart is stalling when turning right it the oil sensor. try unplugging and give it a shot.

 

[itsid]

traction might be an issue.. the live axle likes to go straight ahead and is not
particularly fond of taking corners,
the more grip you have the less likely it is that one wheel can slip through the corner
(slip is the only alternative to a lifting inner wheel apart from a differential axle that is )

Now, easy to check, get that thing on an asphalt road or -better yet- gravel road..
the mudslinger profile should slip extremely well on gravel or smooth roads

so if that makes the kart turn better, I'd opt for some turf savers instead of the tractor tyres.

'sid

PS low oil sensor is always a good idea to remove on karts.. that way you also have the wire for the remote kill switch available

 

[jshaw1988]

i think the reason that the kart is stalling when turning right it the oil sensor. try unplugging and give it a shot.

I don't mean stalling the motor. I have already disconnected the ops, that was the first thing I did on the new motor.

I mean stalling, as in stopping the kart.

traction might be an issue.. the live axle likes to go straight ahead and is not
particularly fond of taking corners,
the more grip you have the less likely it is that one wheel can slip through the corner
(slip is the only alternative to a lifting inner wheel apart from a differential axle that is )

Now, easy to check, get that thing on an asphalt road or -better yet- gravel road..
the mudslinger profile should slip extremely well on gravel or smooth roads

so if that makes the kart turn better, I'd opt for some turf savers instead of the tractor tyres.

'sid

PS low oil sensor is always a good idea to remove on karts.. that way you also have the wire for the remote kill switch available

I have already disabled the ops after the kart shutting off while sliding hard through corners lol.

You were dead on with the bent left hand spindle arm. It was bent AND twisted, causing it to make contact with the knuckle (?). Straightened it out closer to correct and it turns great now! I have no idea how I missed that. So thank you for your insight!

I drove it on the asphalt to see what top speed is like, like a responsible adult. If I don't feather into the throttle a little I spin the wheel immediately. A coworker replaced the front wheels on his riding mower last week and still had the old ones laying around. I'll toss em on the rear wheels and see what I get.

Now for a new clutch with 11 or 12 tooth, and a new brake band. Then an electric start kit!

Thanks guys!

 

[landuse]

Rather get a 12T clutch as you don't want to gear any lower than what you are now

 

[jshaw1988]

Rather get a 12T clutch as you don't want to gear any lower than what you are now

The mower tires I snatched to test with are 15s, rather than the 13s that are currently on it. That SHOULD do the same thing as the 12t clutch. I will report back once I get them on.

 

[jshaw1988]

Okay so update on the kart with the turf saver tires. It didn't seem to help with traction, in fact the opposite is the case. It's much easier to slide around.

 

[Scott.A86]

Maybe your clutch engagement is off, throwing too much at the tire too fast. Possibly getting stressed out under certain loads like turns. I dont know for sure just a thought.