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Old 05-13-2011, 10:56 AM
Kentguy13 Kentguy13 is offline
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Default HELP - Ignition switch with relay

Hello. I have a Briggs 18hp twin with electric start that I'd like to hook up with an ignition switch and relay. The Relay appears to be a Ford (had it laying around the garage). The battery is a lawn and garden from Walmart. The ignition switch (will probably go buy a new one soon, since this one does not spring out of START like it should), was salvaged off an old cart I had.

Questions: What do I hook up and where?

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Any input or references to a SIMPLE wiring diagram would be great! Thanks.
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Old 05-13-2011, 03:58 PM
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Looking at that switch, it doesn't have a start position. ACC/OFF/ON. Look at the terminals- nothing for the starter.

For the relay- it is a FORD style. One big terminal to battery +, one big terminal to the starter. For the small terminals, one gets grounded and the other comes from the start terminal that you don't have on your ignition switch. So yes, you'd need a new switch. IIRC, it doesn't matter which one of the large terminals goes to the battery, and I don't believe it matters which one of the small terminals gets grounded.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:32 AM
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Thanks... that explains why when I tried it.... it didn't work. I'll get the new switch and try again.

Side note: The switch in the picture does have an IGN position in the top right of the pic. I know its not clear in the pic, but it does say IGN.

Last edited by Kentguy13; 05-14-2011 at 09:34 AM. Reason: side note
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toystory_4wd View Post
For the relay- it is a FORD style. For the small terminals, one gets grounded and the other comes from the start terminal

Except your describing how to wire up a dual battery (or winch) solenoid that looks very-very similar, but will always have a housing made completely of metal like this pic:



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The OP does indeed have a (SW-3 type) Ford starter solenoid with a Bake-a-lite type housing and only a metal mounting bracket.

The 2 small posts/terminals will usually have a very small "S" and "I" embossed next to each post.

The "S" terminal on the left is your crank wire to engage the starter.

The Ford starter solenoids "I" terminal should not ever be grounded, in fact the OP most-likely wont need to use this terminal at all.

The purpose of this "I" terminal was just to send full battery-voltage signal to the + input of the ignition coil, thus bypassing the cars ballast resistor only in the crank mode.

The older Ford ignition system used a resistor to lower the ignition coils input voltage down to between 8 to 11 volts, just so the points would last longer. The starter solenoids small "I" post simply supplied this full battery voltage to the coil while cranking, to achieve a hotter spark and make the engine start much easier. (this feature was mostly needed when the engine was all warmed up and just shut off, and then while attempting to be immediately re-started)

The mounting bracket of Ford starter solenoids do need to be grounded to function, just not that little "I" post on the right side...
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Old 05-14-2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentguy13 View Post
Thanks... that explains why when I tried it.... it didn't work. I'll get the new switch and try again.

Side note: The switch in the picture does have an IGN position in the top right of the pic. I know its not clear in the pic, but it does say IGN.
You've got whats commonly known as a "universal ignition switch" there. The center post is your crank that should be wired to the starter solenoids small "S" terminal.

But your gonna have problems using that switch to kill your engine:
Your ignition switch needs a positive/+ input voltage on the Batt. terminal.
It sends + voltage out with both the Acc. and Ign. terminals when the key is on.
It sends a crank/starter signal only in the crank position.

But... unless your 18hp briggs has an external ignition coil wired up like all older cars were. Your Briggs will achieve spark without any wiring/switches connected to the engine at all, and it will only require its small kill-switch/magneto wire to be Grounded when you wanna kill spark and shut the engine off.

Your current ignition switch has no means of sending both a ground signal, and also a + signal to the starter solenoid. There are some ignition switches made that would achieve this, but not yours. Most any ignition switch designed for an electric start go kart equipped with an industrial engine would work great for ya here.

But It might just be best to use a simple/2-wire starter, push button switch to engage the solenoid when you wanna crank the engine over.

And then also wire in a separate/simple 2-wire toggle switch that would ground out your engines little magneto wire and shut the engine off...

PS: If you wanna try to re-use your old ignition switch. You could probably lube/clean it out with electrical contact cleaner w/lube, or even just use a liberal spraying of WD40 to get some inside and make its internal spring return again...
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:03 AM
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Thanks for the clarification, Anderkart. I was fiddling with a similar relay the other day and having some issues, perhaps because of the above.

I know enough to know that the relay has to have a ground for it to work, so I guess the Ford unit is grounded thru the bracket?
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:18 AM
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Yes exactly, and then the all metal type solenoid's (equipped w/ the dual-small post feature) would only need either of its small terminals grounded, and would actually function just fine with or w/o its mounting bracket grounded.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:27 PM
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Thank you everyone for the input and extensive knowledge. I would have gone about it completely wrong if I were to try it on my own. I may take your advice Anderkart, and just go with the two separate push button idea. Depends how I feel the day I'm at the parts store. haha. Thanks again!

Last edited by Kentguy13; 05-14-2011 at 01:28 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:33 AM
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I wanted to thank everyone that contributed to this thread. I ended up using two separate switches, but it works great! Thanks for the help, I would have struggled on my own.
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Old 08-16-2011, 12:13 PM
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Default charging the battery and running lights.

I have one more ignition/battery question: This supply wire that comes from the coil... I'm assuming it is designed to help recharge the battery on a conventional riding mower? I'm using a mower battery, so does it connect DIRECTLY to the positive terminal on the battery, or does it run through some type of rectifiers? Thanks again!!

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  #11  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:55 AM
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If there's only 1 single wire it probably already has a rectifier/regulator in the circuit.
Measure the output of that wire with a volt meter set to the DC scale at 2000+ rpm and post what it reads.

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Old 08-17-2011, 08:37 PM
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Thanks for the diagram. I will test it as soon as I'm available to, probably not within a week though Thanks again!
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Old 08-21-2011, 12:11 PM
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Well... I tested the wire... not good news for me. It would not register a voltage on the DC scale, however it would on the AC. The reading varied with engine RPM, at idle around 8v, half power around 15v, and full power 24v. This answers my question if I can hook it up to the battery... I realize it needs to be DC and around 12-14v. What would be the easiest step to rectify this lead?
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:28 PM
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Yeah it sounds like your charging coil is working fine, and your just missing the regulator-rectifier that bolts on the outside of your engine. You can check out the 42000-series engine charging specifications here at this link: http://www.willardssmallengines.com/...tor_chart.html

This site has diagrams and list all the part numbers for your engine model, but it says they're out of stock on the regulator you need: http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=b...1&dn=7634005AE

But this search link shows several other on-line shops selling your regulator: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...0%29+Regulator
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:38 PM
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hi, do you know anything about the Yerf Dog carts ? I have one that keeps frying starter solenoids. When new,it fires and runs great but shortly after burns up starter solenoid and quits. All grounds appear to be ok, all other electronic controls have been replaced. ???? can not figure it out please help
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptown View Post
hi, do you know anything about the Yerf Dog carts ? I have one that keeps frying starter solenoids. When new,it fires and runs great but shortly after burns up starter solenoid and quits. All grounds appear to be ok, all other electronic controls have been replaced. ???? can not figure it out please help
I posted on your other thread.
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