Go Back   DIY Go Kart Forum > Building Plans And Advice > Go Kart Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:48 PM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Black Widow frame, engine, TC and brake repair

Hi everyone! This is my first post but this seems like a wonderful community so I'm hoping someone can help me on my new journey. Yesterday I purchased a American SportWorks Black Widow for $250, which I think was an absolute steal. The engine (CMXX 136cc) appears to be seized up, but I'm not worried about that. I'm going to get a Predator 212. I'm somewhat experienced but I still have A LOT to learn. What I need assistance with is this:

(1) The bottom portion of the frame is rusty and the paint (powdercoat, I believe) is flaking off on a good bit of it. I know step 1 will be to remove the rust with a wire brush somehow but I have NO idea what step 2 is. Do I just spraypaint the bare metal and try to blend it as best as possible or what? Would it be best for me to bring it to a professional for sandblasting and fresh powdercoat? Not sure what to do here...

(2) The brake pedal is completely seized up. I'm assuming the master cylinder needs to be replaced but is there a way to cheaply repair it? Price is the name of the game on this whole project!

(3) The torque converter currently on the engine seems to be pressed on the shaft or something and I don't believe it's going to come off. Can anyone recommend a good torque converter that isn't stupid expensive that will work with the Predator 212 and the Black Widow?

(4) The seat is in pretty good shape, the cover is just kind of funky and the padding is kind of laughable. Can anyone recommend a good pad and cover for this cart that will be comfortable, functional and look nice?

I have attached a few pictures. Please let me know if you need more info and thank you so much for any assistance!









---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 PM ----------

Last night I was doing some reading and it seems like some people really like POR "Paint Over Rust" stuff. They say it bonds insanely well and is a very strong coating; sounds kind of like powdercoat to me. I just don't know how well it will go along with the existing powdercoat. Also, I just called a local powdercoat company by me and they said they will sandblast and paint the frame for less than $200. That sounds pretty good to me. What do YOU think?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-02-2019, 02:13 PM
Mrmonk7663 Mrmonk7663 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 403
Thanks: 93
Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts
Default

POR works great if the surface is prepped properly. Properly done, it will not rust again.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-02-2019, 02:52 PM
Texan's Avatar
Texan Texan is offline
Senor Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Deep In The Heart of Texas
Posts: 427
Thanks: 168
Thanked 215 Times in 167 Posts
Default

That rust looks bad. I'd start with a wire brush or wire wheel to clean it up and see if you will need to do some repairs before repaint/powdercoat. Oh, and

PS: Karts are money pits
__________________
Whatcha says no good.?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-02-2019, 04:50 PM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

It really only appears to be surface rust. Also, this place will only charge me $200 to sand-blast, surface prep and paint it. That seems like a **** good deal to me! Will the POR stuff match or mesh up to the existing paint well or will it look absurd?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:37 AM
landuse's Avatar
landuse landuse is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Posts: 17,357
Thanks: 2,124
Thanked 3,462 Times in 2,823 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caesarvis View Post
It really only appears to be surface rust. Also, this place will only charge me $200 to sand-blast, surface prep and paint it. That seems like a **** good deal to me! Will the POR stuff match or mesh up to the existing paint well or will it look absurd?
No paint is ever going to match well with what you have at the moment. You will always see the spots where you have done repairs. If you are willing to pay the 200 for it to be professionally painted, then i would go for it.

As for the torque converter, you can get really cheap chinese knock offs on ebay and amazon. They are perfectly fine, but you might want to get a genuine belt, as the ones that come with those TC's are low quality

POR is paint, not like powdercoat at all
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:04 AM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is online now
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,500
Thanks: 622
Thanked 330 Times in 302 Posts
Default

If the brake pedal is seized up, first start by working generous amounts of PB Blaster penetrant into all of the linkage connected to the pedal.
As for the engine, I've never had to unstick an engine, but I'm sure someone can help. Or you could go the easier way and go to Harbor Freight Tools and get a new $100 Predator 212cc, 6.5 HP engine.
Because unsticking an engine may reveal cylinder wall scoring or any number of major problems.
__________________
"(Speed Demon)Speedin' on the freeway, gotta get a leadway..." -Michael Jackson
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-03-2019, 08:17 AM
Karttekk Karttekk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Elizabeth, PA
Posts: 617
Thanks: 20
Thanked 149 Times in 125 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan View Post
That rust looks bad. I'd start with a wire brush or wire wheel to clean it up and see if you will need to do some repairs before repaint/powdercoat. Oh, and

PS: Karts are money pits
I agree with Texan. It appears as though the frame has rusted through. I would get a grinder and take the rust down to bare metal to see if that's the case. If so, that changes things. You may have some welding to do. Paint flaking is pretty common with these karts. The factory must shoot the color coat onto the metal with no prep or primer to speed up production and keep costs down. Even though the label says American Landmaster, more than likely the frame is from China. Sad for a relatively new kart. The seized brake pedal and "seized" engine could just be from the kart sitting. Start disassembling things until you see what's actually seized. Could just be a rusted sheave with the torque converter.

---------- Post added at 09:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 AM ----------

Here's the factory parts guide. The torque converter doesn't appear to be pressed on, there are bolts shown in the illustration that fasten it.

https://americanlandmaster.com/pdfs/...1/3171_IPL.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-03-2019, 09:44 PM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for the input and help guys. I'm definitely going to get a Predator 212 (and a Stage 1 Kit) and most likely this TC from Amazon. I also bought this Brake Master Cylinder from Amazon. I'm just trying to decide what to do about the frame now. It is most definitely rusted but it's not rusted through at all. I'm currently about half-way through tearing it down completely. Do I take a wire brush and clean it up then paint it or take it to get it professionally powder-coated...? If I WERE to do it myself, after I have it down to bare metal on the chipped/rusted parts, WHAT would I paint it with??? I don't even know what to use! Spray paint would be preferable but will that work? Also, whatever paint I do end up using, will I need to mask off all of the current paint or can I just kind of blend them together?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-03-2019, 10:11 PM
Karttekk Karttekk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Elizabeth, PA
Posts: 617
Thanks: 20
Thanked 149 Times in 125 Posts
Default

Fix it yourself. Get the metal as clean as you then treat the rust with something like this. They say some rust left on the metal is better for protection, helps the reaction.

https://www.permatex.com/products/sp...ust-treatment/

It will turn black then form an epoxy like surface on the rust to seal it from further rust. Eastwood makes a good rust encapsulator too but their site is down. No sanding required, just primer then color coat with gloss Rustoleum spray paint.

https://spraypaint.rustoleum.com/pro...e-enamel-spray
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-04-2019, 01:41 AM
landuse's Avatar
landuse landuse is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Posts: 17,357
Thanks: 2,124
Thanked 3,462 Times in 2,823 Posts
Default

Take down to bare metal, paint with something like a self etching primer, and then get some good spray paint like rustoleum and go to town on it
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:45 AM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by landuse View Post
Take down to bare metal, paint with something like a self etching primer, and then get some good spray paint like rustoleum and go to town on it
I really wanted to try to avoid doing that. Only about 10%-20% of the frame is currently rustly like that. The rest of it looks great. I was just going to clean up the rusty parts and paint those...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:18 PM
Texan's Avatar
Texan Texan is offline
Senor Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Deep In The Heart of Texas
Posts: 427
Thanks: 168
Thanked 215 Times in 167 Posts
Default

I'm sure Landuse meant just the rusty part, not the whole kart. Don't worry about trying to blend in the paint or doing a professional job. It's a kart not a classic car. It will eventually see gravel, dirt, mud and whatever else you drive it over. Just go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and ask for primer and enamel spray paint. Just be sure to get off all that scaling rust.
__________________
Whatcha says no good.?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-07-2019, 01:22 AM
landuse's Avatar
landuse landuse is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Posts: 17,357
Thanks: 2,124
Thanked 3,462 Times in 2,823 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caesarvis View Post
I really wanted to try to avoid doing that. Only about 10%-20% of the frame is currently rustly like that. The rest of it looks great. I was just going to clean up the rusty parts and paint those...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan View Post
I'm sure Landuse meant just the rusty part, not the whole kart. Don't worry about trying to blend in the paint or doing a professional job. It's a kart not a classic car. It will eventually see gravel, dirt, mud and whatever else you drive it over. Just go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and ask for primer and enamel spray paint. Just be sure to get off all that scaling rust.
Yup.....I just meant the parts that you would like to paint. It will never match perfectly to the rest of the kart, but you should be able to get it close enough
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:32 AM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Alright guys, I'm well underway with stripping the cart and I just finished painting the wire-brush/sandpaper cleaned rusty parts with this stuff. Now I have a couple more questions if you would be so kind...

0.5. The stuff I painted with has a "rubberized" finish. Should I hit it with some clear coat spraypaint when finished to give it a harder, nicer finish? I have never used that rust barrier stuff.

1. I need to clean up and paint the rear sprocket/brake protector piece and I cannot figure out how to take the axle apart. I have the wheels off and the set-screw out of the sprocket hub but I can't get anything to budge. Here is a picture of the schematic.

2. My go-kart has what is referred to as a "jackshaft" and was already equipped with a torque converter. That part is all good and is the "driven" side. Since the "driver" side is stuck on the garbage motor I took off, can I replace just the driver side (which the schematic here refers to as a clutch, item 35)?

3. I'm having a rough time getting the throttle linkage set-up on my Predator 212. I took the governor off and messed up the factory linkage too much to use. Everything I try (coat hangers) just doesn't work right; usually it won't allow the carb to return all the way back to idle. Any suggestions? Does anyone make an after-market throttle linkage that isn't a ridiculous $30+ part?

After these last few things I will be DONE and we can get to having some fun!

Last edited by caesarvis; 10-14-2019 at 03:12 AM. Reason: Added link
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-14-2019, 06:40 AM
landuse's Avatar
landuse landuse is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Posts: 17,357
Thanks: 2,124
Thanked 3,462 Times in 2,823 Posts
Default

Feed rope down the engine spark plug hole. This will lock the engine up and give you a chance to get the driver off the shaft
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:14 PM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by landuse View Post
Feed rope down the engine spark plug hole. This will lock the engine up and give you a chance to get the driver off the shaft
Sorry, I should have specified that I have the whole rear swing-arm taken off the cart. I also unbolted the sprocket from the hub. I was going to try to get a wire brush in there to clean it up but I'd rather take the axle out if it's not too much trouble...

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:47 PM.