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Old 06-19-2019, 11:22 PM
gegcorp2012 gegcorp2012 is offline
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Default Yard Kart Therapy

Greetings kart fans. I have a great record starting projects, but need practice on finishing them before the deadline ruins the fun.

I am near the end of trying to finish a car project that has taken over 15 years to complete, and I wanted to take a couple of weeks break from the car to do a R&R project (to make yard work fun again).

My mower died last week, so I had to stop working on the car to tend to the mower emergency and in the process of looking for a better mower, I found this site and the build off challenge, so I hope to build my first go-kart and learn a lot in the process.

I hope this will be a therapeutic exercise, and I have already seen one benefit.... A cleaner yard space.

My project starting pile is shown below. I got a Peace Sports 110 ATV front and rear clip from the recycling yard for 20 cents a pound. I got the Honda GX160 power washer on the side of the road for free, and it just needed a carb cleanup and new hose set. There is metal tubing from different sources including a treadmill, and some dimensional tubing from the recycler. I also tried some wrought iron posts for a mock-up ( more on the mock-up post later).I also have my old tractor as a parts source and a Predator 212 in the shop...

Ok, so my goal is to build a running cart and get it completed, and I am planning to use mostly recycled materials and spend the money on items that will make the build perform better.

So once built, my test plan is to start with the 5hp Honda to get it rolling and do some performance baselines, then switch up to the Predator 212 and repeat the performance numbers, then try the power mods on the Predator and repeat...


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  #2  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:54 AM
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Welcome to the build off contest!!

Does the engine off the pressure washer have a straight or tapered output shaft?
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:33 PM
gegcorp2012 gegcorp2012 is offline
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Looks like a strait shaft...

Will the a typical 30 series CVT unit bolt up to this motor and a Predator 212 ?

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---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

So this post is about the mock up process I went through yesterday.

I spent an hour or so considering if/how to make the frame for my new kart, and was thinking about how to get the suspension mounted on the frame rails as easy as possible.

I am not really going to use my old porch posts on my kart, it's just a mock up, but they found their way to the build pile for a while.

So mock it up y'all ... the photos have value if you crack a smile or two as I eliminate one possibly stylish outcome.

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Old 06-20-2019, 11:14 PM
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I have one if those pressure washer Hondas if you can use that it would be great but it will need an exhaust mine will unless i end up selling it
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:22 AM
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A 30 series should bolt up fine to that
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:01 AM
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Use the old porch posts and be the only kid on your block to have a kart like that! No one will want to steal such a uniquely styled kart.


Denny
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Old 06-21-2019, 03:54 PM
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I vote use the porch parts also, kinda like sitting in a top fuel dragster.....ugh....kinda....vroom, vroom

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Old 06-21-2019, 04:11 PM
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The only downside to the Honda GC motors is the exhaust points forward, so make sure you allow ample clearence to the seat back for either the exhaust to disperse, or for a 90° header pipe of some sort.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:40 PM
gegcorp2012 gegcorp2012 is offline
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OK. thanks for the heads up on the Honda exhaust. I found a header pipe with a nice bend in it... says it will fit the 212 Preadator as well.

Thanks for the comments on the porch post mock up, the tubing was relatively heavy, so I decided to build a perimeter frame out of round tubing.

Unfortunately, I don't have a tubing bender so I made several pie cuts through half of the tubing and a bent it using my trailer hitch reciever... The cuts are tack welded so I can continue to work with the tubes, and I plan to weld each of the slits back together once I get the top rails cut and bent.

The ATV control arms will mount to the frame using some tabs I will be cutting from angle iron.

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Old 06-22-2019, 10:58 PM
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Week 1 close out...

Here is about as far as I have figured out the design for my project.

The ATV tires and wheels will be re-used on the front for sure. One of them has a gash in it and only 1 of the 4 is seating properly on the rim to hold air, but I expect to be able to get at least one more to seat without having to spend money on a tube.

I am showing the 12" space I added between the front suspension, it should be enough for a pair of man sized boots so Daddy can ride (that's me). The steering wheel will be about 15" at the hub, and the seat spacing is 24" from the front of the seat to the front frame tube. That will force my heels over the steering rods and get my knees up in the air just behind the steering wheel.

The next photo shows a 3/4 front view with the Honda 160 in the general proximity where it may be located pursuant to axle details which are TBD.

Next you see a mock up with a 20"x10" tractor tire for the rear... the axle would be raised about 2" above the frame so the kart would be level.

Do you think the Honda 5.0 HP would have a problem with the 20" tall tire ? I have started to consider rear axle options and will have to spend some money to get my outside tack width to match the front.


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Old 06-23-2019, 12:03 AM
gegcorp2012 gegcorp2012 is offline
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For week #2, I need to choose a rear end that will match the front track width... about 45" outside to outside. The wheel base will be around 48". This is really wide compared to a car, it should be really stable to do 360's (?) and pretty twitchy on the top end with no play in the steering.

OK, so now the pros and cons of selecting a new rear end.

Spending extra money or waiting on parts will be given a (-)

Using what I have or buying something required to make it work will be given a (+) or a ($) if it is cheap, a ($$) for more expensive items.

Two (++) for something that I can use for either the Honda 160 or the Predator 212. like the 30 series TAV (++) ... I plan on buying that part no matter what option I choose.

I have considered (3) options below...

A) The 20 cents a pound (recycled price) Peace Sports 110 ATV rear axle has tires that need tubes (+) and the shorter tires would require less gear to move big Daddy around (++). The main issue is the axles are too short (BIG - -). If I can find replacement axles ($$), I can try to re-use the existing carrier, shock, sprocket (?) and rotor. I will need a caliper ($) and hose ($) and new brake master cylinder (++). My cost guesstimate is ~180.00

B) If I go with lawn tractor wheels, I will have to get a custom axle ($$) two tires ($$), a larger sprocket ($$) a brake rotor, caliper and hose ($$) and a couple of pillow blocks and a bunch of those axle collars ($$) to keep things in place. Probably need a pair of coil over shocks as well ($$)... My guess ~300.00

C) I can shop for a few days online and find a larger parts ATV ($$$). I can use the tires (++), rear axle (++), sprocket (?) rotor (++), caliper(++), brake cylinders (?) for this build and end up with some other useful parts like more shocks and another complete front end (for the next build!).

>> What do you think about the cost estimates for these options of buying new parts compared to recycling another ATV ?

Sometimes decisions can be made by eliminating incompatible combinations...

Are ATV sprockets interchangable with the sprockets used on a TAV ?

It seems I should work through the sprocket ratios in each option to make the tire size decision.

For A) The 30 series TAV has a 10T sprocket, and 40 or 41 chain. I think the 110 sprocket is a 420 style and has 38 teeth... that would result in a rather high 4:1 gearing.

For B) Using the same TAV 10T sprocket and a custom axle sprocket, I can get a larger diameter and pick something like 70 teeth to get 7:1 gearing. I just noticed the lawn tractor tires have a 3/4 keyed hole. I would like at least a 1" axle if that is a popular option on some tractors.

For C) I am still wondering about compatibility for the sprockets. If ATV sprockets are not compatible, could I just weld or bolt on a larger go-kart type sprocket to the ATV one ?

I think the 20" tall tractor tire is plenty big. possibly too big.... NAH !


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  #12  
Old 06-23-2019, 06:43 AM
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old saying, run whatcha brung, atv has sprocket and brake and bolts to wheels saves $$ to use for beer
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:16 AM
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Default Yard Kart Therapy

Hello kindred lotsa projects that I never finish spirit. I am totaling jellin’ on the fact that your scrap pile/starting point includes actual suspension! I’d say keep the existing rear and find a way to widen it. Sounds like you need a lathe ;-)


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Old 06-23-2019, 03:38 PM
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OK, so I typically rest and nap on Sundays, but today between Church services I scored on a full Yamaha Warrior 350 frame !

So, I will be proceeding with :

option A) The 20 cents a pound 110 cc rear axle (going to add 6" spacers between hubs and wheels) for a small tire combo.

and

option C) the 350 class ATV rear with aluminum wheels, good tires, monoshock suspension, disk brakes and an easily changed sprocket... all for $200.

(+++) PLUS I have the whole front end for the next build pile...

I made a deal with my Son to give him any $$ recovered by the resell of quad parts I dont use on the project. He can wheel and deal that into some higher profit computer or game trades since that is more his bag. I will keep track of the cash flow to help show that recycling ATVs to build karts or buggies from them can be very cost effective.

Just a few photos to marinade on:

Oh, look a cool muffler !

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Old 06-24-2019, 10:17 PM
gegcorp2012 gegcorp2012 is offline
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Here is an update on the 350 Warrior frame... it's so nice and complete, I decided to start a new pile with it.

I took off all the parts that I want to try to sell and set them aside. The photos show what is left... a really nice starting point for something wild like a @Joe-405 class machine (or a 1400cc v-twin thumper quad).... anyways NO NEW PROJECTS, right (!?)


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---------- Post added at 10:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------

So back to the Therapy Kart build.

With the Warrior frame distraction out of the way, I am moving forward with option A) the small tire 110cc rear axle and will make some spacers to go between the axle flanges and the wheels.

Using the suspension and tires from the recycled 110cc ATV keeps the project on a repeatable path... and makes it easier to count the cost of the build.

I weighed the front and rear suspension parts and they totaled 87 lbs. At 20 cents a pound, that's a $17.40 investment. I will have to weigh the tubing once I get some more, but I am pretty sure it will be less weight than the suspension parts. That's the cost so far to get into the project.

Go Recycling, eh !

These photos show the rear axle assembly and a guess at the wheelbase using the 9" stock 110cc swing arm.

I have a question about relocating the single spring. It is not a compound arrangement like a true monoshock, but I would like to get the top mount for the spring to be as low as possible so I can keep the motor low as possible.

One way would be to just mount the top of the shock lower, but I think I would have to add another shock (or increase the spring rate) to compensate for the shock being on a greater angle?



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Old 06-27-2019, 08:27 PM
gegcorp2012 gegcorp2012 is offline
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Unboxing Day !!

Yippee, I got my first wave of parts for the engine and rear end.

I ordered these parts and paid just over $200 including shipping and tax.

A 30 series TAV with 10t 40/41 sprocket
A megaphone exhaust pipe with 90 degree bend
A 60 t 40/41 sprocket with 1" key hub
10 foot of 40/40 chain
2 pillow blocks for 1" axle

I have an idea of what I would like to do with the rear swing arm, but will have to continue researching to find an example that does what I want to do.

Here are some more mock up photos showing the stock 110cc ATV rear end and swingarm.... I have a bunch of parts on the rear axle to test fit them and see the best option for mounting the new swingarm.

First picture from the left to the right... I have to make a 6" spacer between the wheel and hub. Next I am showing a pillow block in case I decide to use outboard shocks for less stress on carrier section.



The big black sprocket is the 60t with 1" slotted key. It will not fit over the existing axle splines unless I drill the hub out a little and cut a slot for a keyway. I was thinking about cutting out the hub and making the 60t fit on the sprocket hub with three screws just like the 47t stock sprocket does. Which would you choose (?)

The rest of the axle and swingarm is stock, but take a look at the repair weld the PO had made where the rear swingarm attaches to the carrier.

That is a sign that there was too much stress there (or they hit a tree or something bad). Since I am adding weight to the kart and progressively more power, I want to make some improvements on the rear suspension and keep the inboard shock (monoshock)

The next picture (engine high side view) shows how we get a red neck down here.


This is using the stock ATV suspension and mounting the engine on the tail frame. The crankshaft of the engine would be at shoulder height (16" above axle) ... that puts the exhaust pipe right at neck level.


The next side view picture shows the engine sitting at the lowest possible height, right on the sprocket and disk brake.

I put the shock near vertical between the seat and engine and would like to have some adjustable mounts to change the suspension height or feel.

The last picture shows two simple drawings with different mechanical advantages on the spring.

The top one has the spring rate equal to the wheel rate. In other words if the wheel moves up one inch, the spring will compress one inch.



In the bottom drawing, I am showing a monoshock arrangement where the wheel moves up and that causes the monoshock mount to rotate forward and the shock mount will compress the spring with a mechanical advantage.

The monoshock will allow more suspension travel using a heavier spring rate.


Kids, ever hear of STEM ? Science, Technology, Engineering and Math as a pathway to finding a career in a higher paying technical field.

I will vote for your build if you can make a scale drawing on graph paper that shows the dimensions for the bottom drawing to determine the mechanical advantage and the correct shock spring rate (pounds per inch) to suspend a 300lb rider/engine combo.

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Old 06-28-2019, 09:59 PM
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Working on both ends of the kart... got the front control arms tacked in place, also trying to figure out the best fit for the TAV on the engine.

The TAV does not want to be forward of the engine, because the strengthening ribs are in the way of the chain if I try to mount it that way. I was hoping to get the sprocket to be near the pivot for the front of the swingarm, kind of like a motorcycle.

Will pull the Preadator out and see if it is a more natural fit.

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Old 06-28-2019, 11:41 PM
gegcorp2012 gegcorp2012 is offline
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Here are a couple of shots comparing the overall look and fitment of the 160 Honda and the 212 Predator with the same exhaust pipe.

The Honda has the head right next to the seat (-) and it seems like there would be less air on the head and exhaust (-) and more heat on my neck (--) as it is right behind the seat. One (+) is the Honda may have a larger exhaust port, but the pipe has that flat spot on the flange that covers part of the port, so I think the pipe may have fit the port better if it was turned 180 degrees to exit on the TAV side and I did not want to bake the TAV and belt with the hot pipe.




The Predator has the head facing the rear and would get more air (++) and the exhaust pipe fits the port and I really like the rear exit on the exhaust (++). I think the motor seems to be a little easier to line up with the ATV sprocket, but the Honda should be about the same, right (?).




I think the Predator is just a nicer fit and looks cooler with the head and fins and the pipe sticking out the back. Much better to show metal performance parts than the plastic fuel tank as seen on the Honda. Plus the Predator has more HP to boot!

Looks like I will finish the build with the Predator...

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Old 06-29-2019, 02:57 PM
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Just had an hour or so to do some cutting and grinding on the ATV swingarm and start looking at how to make a new, longer swingarm with room for the motor to sit on top and have an adjustable monoshock that is behind the seat.


Here is the stock swingarm setup.



This photo shows the ATV swingarm being cut up, cleaned up and flipped around.


I changed it around so the front swingarm pivot is on the inside, and will be welding the outside bearing holders to the frame/cage behind the seat. I also need to trim off the brackets for the center section that is up at the top of the seat. (had to stop to get more cutoff wheels)

I will try to locate all this so the shock mounting bracket will be in line with the top frame tube. Then I plan to make an adjustable mount for the bottom of the shock on the swingarm so I can vary the ride height and fine tune the bounce.

The new swingarm will be around 20 inches long (2x the stock 110 ATV part) and the shock will be mounted 8-10 inches from the front pivot (about the same as the 110 ATV). Doubling the length of the swingarm should give 6 inches of rear travel from the stock shock that has just 3 inches before it bottoms out.

Oh, yeah.... there's always a "gotcha" to plan for... I at this point it is the huge 60 tooth sprocket that I am chopping the hub out of. Once I get it where I can get it on the axle, I will be able to see how tall I will have to make the motor mounts.


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Old 07-01-2019, 01:26 AM
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I spent 11$ on this cart from start to finish its my first one took me a wile but it was fun the onlything I had to buy was axle bearings. The main thing is don't give up I would add things and after I did I wouldn't like it so I took it off Lol] sometimes its best to keep it simple
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