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  #21  
Old 10-08-2018, 07:03 PM
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it's really really bad habbit to refer to a kart by it's nickname
especially IF there are several karts that share that name.

even worse if one doesn't show a picture of the kart in question,
so that nobody is able to identify it for good.
Since that way we could find the original setup and PROOF how wrong you actually are.

NO, your kart most certainly did NOT CAME with 22" wheels and a 6:1 ratio..
and for sure no kart ever came with a predator (it's a good replacement engine in many cases however)
Why you might ask, because that doesn't work, it simply won't;
and people who know their stuff (KenBar for that matter) KNOW it doesn't,
so they won't built such CRAP!

NOW, on the other hand there are people.. a huge amount of people unfortunately,
that are literally IGNORANT to all vehicle related stuff,
think they are smarter than the manufacturer and worst of all,
unwilling to take advice.

Those people do really stupid stuff,
they change the gear ratio without knowing the physical limits of the setup (mostly for speed),
they install larger wheels (for the looks or the speed.. effectively CHANGING THE GEAR RATIO!)
they swap a Torque converter for a cent clutch and expecting it to work (which most likely doesn't if geared for a TC) in order to save some money.

And essentially.. when that fails, they sell the kart
and the next guy has to deal with this kind of crap.

Some, (most) that show up, listen to what we say, fix their gear ratio to one that actually works, orrr reinstall the missing TC ORRR reinstall the original smaller wheels
and rush off as soon as they do, problem solved, happy rider.

THEN their are brick heads (not naming the two I have in mind atm)
those simply refuse to change anything.. or take any advice

No my wheels MUST BE that large..
NOO my kart must go 85mph with a lousy 5 horse engine
NOOO I insist the 3:1 gear ratio is original...

those will simply NOT rush off and be a happy rider anytime soon.

Instead they do find that other brickhead with the exact same issue
(for the exact same reason) that too refuses to fix his kart.
And take HIS' advice
good choice!

I'm out! (imagine dramatic microphone drop and such )

'sid
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  #22  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:03 PM
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Keep the Predator 212.
Keep the 60T sprocket.

And now I'll give you some options that should work even with 22" tires (provided there is room for the TC and Pulley - it is possible that you need to raise the engine up a bit)

For around $125 you can have all the low end you need (and then some extra)...

Get a TAV-2 Kit from eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Go-Kart-Tor....c100505.m3226

Get a 7" Driven Pulley.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CLUTCH-DRIV...ty!60803!US!-1

Get a Comet 203591 belt.
https://www.carrollstream.com/Genuin...-p/203591a.htm

Get an 8T sprocket.
https://www.ombwarehouse.com/-40-41-...eystock-1.html


23.5 :1 gear ratio in low gear.
~163 lbs linear force pushing you at engagement.
(A kart with 13" Tires and 6 :1 ratio using a regular clutch would give you around 89 lbs linear force. Right now you have about 50 lbs of linear force at engagement)

8.4 :1 gear ratio in high.
28 mph at 3600 RPM
39 mph with an adjusted governor -5k RPM

____________________________________________
OR... (for around $65 - TC Kit, 8T sprocket)
Just get the TC kit and the 8T sprocket and forget about the 7" driven unit and the 203591 belt.

20.1 :1 gear ratio in low
140 lbs linear force at engagement

6.75 :1 gear ratio in high
35 mph at 3600 RPM
~45 mph with adjusted governor

You can decide if you want more bottom end or more top speed.
The latter is cheaper, but you will be using a cheap Chinese belt. If you want to upgrade the belt https://www.carrollstream.com/search...203589&Submit=

If you go with the 7" driven unit you can save money and get a cheap belt, but I usually recommend genuine Comet belts because they last longer.
Here's a cheap belt to use with the 7" driven unit if you want to go that route.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Drive-Belt-....c101006.m3226

It has been argued that Comet belts which cost 3X as much as a cheap belt do not last 3X as long as a cheap belt, so it might be more cost effective to go with cheap belts - but will require replacing belts more often.
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  #23  
Old 10-08-2018, 10:29 PM
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Sid,
I’m really sorry if it came off like I was questioning your advice. I don’t know anything about Go Karts. It’s why I’m here. I can see how my questions could have been offensive but certainly didn’t mean them that way. I am truely sorry and really appreciate the advice.

Bob580,
This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for but didn’t know what questions to ask. Thanks so much for the information and taking the time to paste the links. I have a couple of karts in this configuration and I think this will get them both going. When I get em running I’ll post some pics and videos. Thanks again.
Chris
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  #24  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:26 AM
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landuse landuse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
it's really really bad habbit to refer to a kart by it's nickname
especially IF there are several karts that share that name.

even worse if one doesn't show a picture of the kart in question,
so that nobody is able to identify it for good.
Since that way we could find the original setup and PROOF how wrong you actually are.

NO, your kart most certainly did NOT CAME with 22" wheels and a 6:1 ratio..
and for sure no kart ever came with a predator (it's a good replacement engine in many cases however)
Why you might ask, because that doesn't work, it simply won't;
and people who know their stuff (KenBar for that matter) KNOW it doesn't,
so they won't built such CRAP!

NOW, on the other hand there are people.. a huge amount of people unfortunately,
that are literally IGNORANT to all vehicle related stuff,
think they are smarter than the manufacturer and worst of all,
unwilling to take advice.

Those people do really stupid stuff,
they change the gear ratio without knowing the physical limits of the setup (mostly for speed),
they install larger wheels (for the looks or the speed.. effectively CHANGING THE GEAR RATIO!)
they swap a Torque converter for a cent clutch and expecting it to work (which most likely doesn't if geared for a TC) in order to save some money.

And essentially.. when that fails, they sell the kart
and the next guy has to deal with this kind of crap.

Some, (most) that show up, listen to what we say, fix their gear ratio to one that actually works, orrr reinstall the missing TC ORRR reinstall the original smaller wheels
and rush off as soon as they do, problem solved, happy rider.

THEN their are brick heads (not naming the two I have in mind atm)
those simply refuse to change anything.. or take any advice

No my wheels MUST BE that large..
NOO my kart must go 85mph with a lousy 5 horse engine
NOOO I insist the 3:1 gear ratio is original...

those will simply NOT rush off and be a happy rider anytime soon.

Instead they do find that other brickhead with the exact same issue
(for the exact same reason) that too refuses to fix his kart.
And take HIS' advice
good choice!

I'm out! (imagine dramatic microphone drop and such )

'sid
Can I get an Amen??!
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  #25  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:27 AM
J.S.@SMS J.S.@SMS is offline
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Thanks bob58o. I will definitely look into getting a 7" driven pulley. One question, I will likely order an 8t sprocket but will it work with the original 10t sprocket on there temporarily? And will it hurt the driving pulley or engine if I keep this setup until I use up the current belt?
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  #26  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:38 AM
subarumafia subarumafia is offline
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So my Karts are actually Ken-Bar Streaker High Performance Pace Setter Fun Karts STA 8. I ordered the driven pulleys, torque converters and smaller sprockets. I have a tone of parts motors and Karts at this point so I'm bound to be able to get something together (LOL). I'll post pics soon. Thanks for all the help guys.
Chris
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  #27  
Old 10-09-2018, 08:09 AM
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The 7" pulley, if it fits, provides 3.13 :1 reduction instead of the 2.68 :1 that the 6" pulley provides. And instead of the 0.90 :1 overdrive that you get with the 6", the 7" gives 1.12 :1 in high.

So with the 7" pulley and 6 :1 sprocket ratio (60 :10) you are sitting at 18.8 :1 in low and 6.72 :1 in high.

If using the 7" with the 10T....

131 lbs linear force pushing the kart at engagement. All of these force calculations have already assumed 20% loss due to the belt drive and are using 8 lb ft of torque at engagement which is not exactly correct.

35 mph at 3600 RPM
~45 mph with an adjusted governor. I say ~45, just like before, because I don't know how many RPMs you will actually turn. It would actually be closer to 49 mph if you got to 5000 RPM, but I don't think you will get to 5000 RPM. It is possible you only turn around 4200 RPM and only get ~41 mph.

So the 7" pulley with the 10T sprocket gives the same top end as 6" pulley with the 8T sprocket. It just gives slightly less bottom end. ~6.4% less bottom end than you would get with the 6" and the 8T.

That is why I didn't include the 7" pulley with the 10T as one of the options. Well I originally did, but deleted it after doing the math. It is more expensive than just using 6" with the 8T and doesn't give as much on the bottom or any extra on the top.



Quote:
Originally Posted by J.S.@SMS View Post
TAnd will it hurt the driving pulley or engine if I keep this setup until I use up the current belt?
What setup are you talking about? 7" pulley with 10T sprocket??? Or the 6" pulley with the 10T???

The 6" with the 10T shouldn't hurt the engine or the driver unit. At least I don't think it will. Just possibly the belt. And you won't turn as many RPM's, which is better for the engine.

The 7" with the 10T should be fine.

The 7" pulley needs the 203589 belt. The 6" pulley needs the 203591 belt.

If fact, using the 10T sprocket with the 7" pulley will increase the life of the sprockets and chain. The smaller the little sprocket, the faster it wears. The faster it wears, the faster the chain wears. It is easier and cheaper to replace belts than it is to replace sprockets and chains.

So if you want to use the 6" with the 10T until the belt is used up, I think that is ok. Then you can decide if you want to get an 8T sprocket, a 7" pulley, or both. There is also a 9T sprocket you could get which would be fine with the 7" pulley (as would be the 10T). If keeping the 6" pulley, I'd suggest 8T.
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  #28  
Old 10-09-2018, 08:40 AM
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Just ran some calculations and I am definitely going to use the 7" pulley and 8t sprocket. This gives me the max torque and about 29mph which is plenty fast for this kart.
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:15 PM
subarumafia subarumafia is offline
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How are you doing J.S. You get your Kart running right? I'm making progress. The parts have arrived. That Kartcalc is a amazing. Hopefully I'll have the Karts all running by this weekend. I haven't forgotten about you guys. as soon as I get these things running I'll post a link to a video.
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  #30  
Old 10-15-2018, 02:32 PM
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I haven't gotten mine running yet. My parents said that they will get me the TC parts for Christmas. Until then I discovered that there's something wrong with both brake calipers. So i'm going to drop the axle over the weekend, pull the calipers off, disassemble them and see if they are salvageable (may be as simple as the pads). So that will keep me busy.
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  #31  
Old 10-18-2018, 12:37 PM
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Hopefully you'll get it running.

And I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can explain if the front bumper on my kart is original, or if it was added on, since I cannot find a kart with this bumper online.
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  #32  
Old 04-11-2019, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subarumafia View Post
How are you doing J.S. You get your Kart running right? I'm making progress. The parts have arrived. That Kartcalc is a amazing. Hopefully I'll have the Karts all running by this weekend. I haven't forgotten about you guys. as soon as I get these things running I'll post a link to a video.
As usual I forgot to update this thread. Its been about 3 or 4 weeks since I got my kart running. I swapped the OHH60 for a Predator 212, and installed the 7" rear pulley, and a 9t tc sprocket. And I swapped the 428 chain for 420. The 420 fits fine, and I think that it's what it came with. I also moved the throttle bar down to the lowest hole in the pedal, to give the throttle a little more throw.

The kart is running fine, but it doesn't like ruts, or donuts. In ruts the edges of the tires grab and pull the kart all over the place. And as for donuts, when I give it gas and turn the wheel, the kart goes straight. So I'm going to put some round knobbies on the front. Though I still need to fix the brakes.
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