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  #21  
Old 07-11-2017, 12:12 PM
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Not likely if the pto is tapered and not a straight shaft.

---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

Unless you can get a straight keyed shaft to replace it.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2017, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartorbust View Post
Not likely if the pto is tapered and not a straight shaft.

---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

Unless you can get a straight keyed shaft to replace it.
As I have done on my previous build, machine the shaft down to 3/4" with a keyway....
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?p=449282

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  #23  
Old 07-11-2017, 02:10 PM
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Looks like the plate shows it's governed at 3000 rpm. Mechanically, it's probably capable of 3600. If it's a fixed speed governor you'll have to find a way around that. If it's adjustable speed, then you simply need to hook a gas pedal to it.

As for the shaft and torque converter, a diesel is going to put out lots of torque, so you'd probably be looking at a 40 series converter, so machine the shaft to whatever diameter you need to fit that.
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:01 PM
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How about one of these?


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  #25  
Old 11-21-2017, 08:06 PM
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tapered shafts are always a bummer..
also this thing weighs in at 50-55kg alone

that amount of weight is certainly not a good start for "just the engine"
if you want to power a small vehicle.

possible: sure,
you can have a shaft adapter machined (or make one yourself if you have a lathe)
you can certainly run all sorts of std clutches as well
(idles ~1200 rpms and peaks at ~3600 just as any other industrial engine)
but since the torque curve is different you might need some tweaks to make use of all the torque it provides...

lots of money will need to be spent,
insead you can clean it maintain it and sell it and get a 10hp gas enigne with a straight shaft instead (a third of the weight, easier to mod for more power/speed and much easier to make use of in general)

So yeah.. you can.. but should you????

I wouldn't bother really tbh.

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  #26  
Old 11-22-2017, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
tapered shafts are always a bummer..
also this thing weighs in at 50-55kg alone

that amount of weight is certainly not a good start for "just the engine"
if you want to power a small vehicle.

possible: sure,
you can have a shaft adapter machined (or make one yourself if you have a lathe)
you can certainly run all sorts of std clutches as well
(idles ~1200 rpms and peaks at ~3600 just as any other industrial engine)
but since the torque curve is different you might need some tweaks to make use of all the torque it provides...

lots of money will need to be spent,
insead you can clean it maintain it and sell it and get a 10hp gas enigne with a straight shaft instead (a third of the weight, easier to mod for more power/speed and much easier to make use of in general)

So yeah.. you can.. but should you????

I wouldn't bother really tbh.

'sid
Yup, yup... I took note of all you said...

But this Diesel calls to be used in a machine demanding torque and not speed... hence opting for a utility build of some sort..
I have had an obsession with the innards of the 6×6...
The gearing and details we'll sort out down the line...

The shaft will be machined down to 3/4" to take a TAV2 I have in a box...

The big cost items are:

-A differential of some sort...
- 6 wheels and tires
- Break calipers with master cylinders
-Sprockets & chains ..

Most of the parts above are obtainable secondhand at a unreasonable price...I hope😥


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  #27  
Old 11-22-2017, 10:32 AM
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the 6x6 setups I've seen didn't have no differential at all.
all have been purely belt driven (lots of pulleys ... few chains and sprockets)

all simple pulleys btw..
a small one on the engine (no clutch!) driving two larger ones on jackshafts (running in opposite directions)
both of those shafts hold two small pulleys (one for the left set of wheels, one for the right ones)
those run loosely to a much larger pulley on the respective frontmost wheel
and are engaged with two idler pulleys tightening either one of the belts being mounted to the same manually actuated lever
ie. push the left lever forward -> push the left side idler UP engaging the left wheel's forward
belt to engage,
push the lever back -> push the idler down engaging the reverse belt driving the wheels in reverse...
same for the right lever -> right wheels of course.
Independent levers for tank style steering
Wheels then are interconnected with chains (or more belts) depends on what you're looking at.

I guess if you want to go fancy, you can get use three differentials (peerless 100 maybe)
some U-joints and steerable wheels, but since you'd want the rear axle to steer in the opposite direction than the front axle (with the center axle not steering at all)
the linkages could get really messy if you're not careful with planning
And you'd loose the reverse (or you'd need to install a F'n'R gearbox)

And while it has a lot of torque (I guess it peaks at about 28Nm @1800rpm from the blurry diagram I saw)
the Rato 420 gasoline pushes 25Nm @2500rpm... not too big of a difference either, is it?

just saying.

'sid
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  #28  
Old 11-22-2017, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
the 6x6 setups I've seen didn't have no differential at all.
all have been purely belt driven (lots of pulleys ... few chains and sprockets)

all simple pulleys btw..
a small one on the engine (no clutch!) driving two larger ones on jackshafts (running in opposite directions)
both of those shafts hold two small pulleys (one for the left set of wheels, one for the right ones)
those run loosely to a much larger pulley on the respective frontmost wheel
and are engaged with two idler pulleys tightening either one of the belts being mounted to the same manually actuated lever
ie. push the left lever forward -> push the left side idler UP engaging the left wheel's forward
belt to engage,
push the lever back -> push the idler down engaging the reverse belt driving the wheels in reverse...
same for the right lever -> right wheels of course.
Independent levers for tank style steering
Wheels then are interconnected with chains (or more belts) depends on what you're looking at.

I guess if you want to go fancy, you can get use three differentials (peerless 100 maybe)
some U-joints and steerable wheels, but since you'd want the rear axle to steer in the opposite direction than the front axle (with the center axle not steering at all)
the linkages could get really messy if you're not careful with planning
And you'd loose the reverse (or you'd need to install a F'n'R gearbox)

And while it has a lot of torque (I guess it peaks at about 28Nm @1800rpm from the blurry diagram I saw)
the Rato 420 gasoline pushes 25Nm @2500rpm... not too big of a difference either, is it?

just saying.

'sid
Engine-Tav driving the input of a small differential, perhaps off a golf cart or quad bike...
Break disc on each output shalfs controlling the drive ouput to each side of the buggy.
All three wheels are interconnected with same ratio sprockets & chains, driven from the diff.
I could throw in a foward reverse gearbox somewhere between, depending on the budget..

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  #29  
Old 11-22-2017, 07:19 PM
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Not a fan of that idea tbh!

thought about it for a minute.. and it's getting worse..
any form of clutch needs speed to fully engage.. while that's perfectly fine for going straight,
it's NOT as soon as you try to stop one set of wheels.
- the differential will multiply the speed by whatever ratio your stopping the one half.
- adjusting all brakes on one side to have the exact same 'stopping power' will be difficult
and an error will cause premature wear up to a point where you might loose stopping power entirely. (which in itself is a bad thing)
- actually stopping with two seperately activated brakes left and right can be tricky as well.
- and lastly.. since you can run either forward or backward on both sides... the turning radius will be ....Kansas?

IDK.. I'm leaning towards belts for simplicity... or steering axles front and back with differentials,
a cross between the two... meh... I don't see that to be comfortable to ride really.

'sid

PS porsche dude's tank... you seen that?
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Old 11-22-2017, 07:23 PM
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Here's Porche930's Goliath mini tank http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24374
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  #31  
Old 11-26-2017, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
Not a fan of that idea tbh!

thought about it for a minute.. and it's getting worse..
any form of clutch needs speed to fully engage.. while that's perfectly fine for going straight,
it's NOT as soon as you try to stop one set of wheels.
- the differential will multiply the speed by whatever ratio your stopping the one half.
- adjusting all brakes on one side to have the exact same 'stopping power' will be difficult
and an error will cause premature wear up to a point where you might loose stopping power entirely. (which in itself is a bad thing)
- actually stopping with two seperately activated brakes left and right can be tricky as well.
- and lastly.. since you can run either forward or backward on both sides... the turning radius will be ....Kansas?

IDK.. I'm leaning towards belts for simplicity... or steering axles front and back with differentials,
a cross between the two... meh... I don't see that to be comfortable to ride really.

'sid

PS porsche dude's tank... you seen that?
Sid...
I think you are missing the design concept here...
No drive wheels or steering wheels here...



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  #32  
Old 11-26-2017, 05:51 AM
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no drive wheels.. means no self propelled vehicle and no need for an engine at all
and a 6x6 has SIX driven wheels..

And that's the whole point.. if you do not add a steering wheel (and steerable axles/wheels for that matter)
a differential setup might be not exactly beneficial

(tank style steering is better with belts than diffs.. especially since you can reverse one set )

'sid
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  #33  
Old 11-26-2017, 06:00 AM
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No drive wheels or steering wheel? So basically just a 6 wheeled body that only goes in a straight line.
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  #34  
Old 11-27-2017, 01:20 AM
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  #35  
Old 11-29-2017, 05:02 AM
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Andrecht, tanks, bulldozers and most any tracked vehicle built from the turn of the century until the mid 60's when hydrostat drive came into play had a differential. It will be fine my 1956 Terratrac dozer loader has a differential, it turns just fine.


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  #36  
Old 11-29-2017, 07:02 AM
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Most of the early tracked vehicles especially from Cat and John Deere used brakes for steering and that's still mostly true today.

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  #37  
Old 11-30-2017, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartorbust View Post
Most of the early tracked vehicles especially from Cat and John Deere used brakes for steering and that's still mostly true today.

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@kartorbust , im glad you said it because apparently im going nutty...😆

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  #38  
Old 03-04-2018, 07:53 AM
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So.... here we go!!

6x6 Buggy

Shopping list:
16 x 1" bearings
14 x 1/2inch 20 tooth sprockets
6 x 1" 400mm long shaftsteel
16 x 1" 50mm long hollow bar collars



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Old 03-16-2018, 05:54 PM
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Keep us updated!!
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:01 PM
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The ARGO 8x8 we used to have at work had a Vanguard v twin with a torque converter driving a single FNR transaxle like you'd find in a John Deere gator, with an open differential driving the front set of wheels.

The rest of the wheels were all on stub shafts, Daisy chained together with sprockets and chain, each one driving the one behind it.

There was one brake on each side of the transaxle, operated independently by a pair of master cylinders attached to the control levers. Pull the right one to turn right, pull the left one to turn left, pull both to stop. Braking power, like drive power, was transmitted to all the rest of the wheels via the chains. If the chains broke (they never did as they were massively oversized) you still had brakes on the front wheels.

It did not have true skid steering where the two sides can be turned opposite directions simultaneously.
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