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Old 12-30-2019, 11:12 AM
jmcdaniel0 jmcdaniel0 is offline
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Default Murray Explorer Project

Well,

A bit of back story: I bought my two kids a Chinese Kandi 125cc piece of crap for Christmas. Long story short. It fits my six year old great, and seems to work well for him. My daughter on the other hand is 12 and the thing will barely pull her.


Today I picked up a Murray Explorer for 130.00. It has a Briggs and Stratton Vanguard 6hp on it that is currently not running. I知 planning on a full rebuild. I知 going to strip it down repaint, new tires, new engine seat the works. I値l upload pics when I get back later. I知 not a mechanic so be prepared lolol.
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Last edited by jmcdaniel0; 12-30-2019 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Add Pics
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Old 12-30-2019, 06:21 PM
jmcdaniel0 jmcdaniel0 is offline
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Hey folks, Im looking at which motor I want to put on this thing, and I am confused. I am looking at getting the Harbor Freight 13 HP (420cc) OHV Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine EPA/CARB.

My questions are this:

I am looking at performance parts kits for it and I do not under stand some terms.

I see different kits that state hemi and non hemi and the kits also say Stage 1-4. Can someone explain what that means to me.

The parts Im looking at getting for this are:

(1) ARC_6607-GX3 Billet Flywheel
(1) ARC_5980 Coil Adapter
(2) ARC_DJ-3055 Valve Springs
(1) ARC_6929 Billet Adapter
(1) ARC_DJ-1257 Choke Bracket
(1) TD_AFR175 Air Filter
(1) ARC_DJ-3314 Air Filter Gasket
(1) TD_AR3910X Spark Plug
(1) ARC_15-990 Header Pipe
(1) ARC_DJ-3330 Exhaust Gasket
(1) RLV_5017 .042 Main Jet
(1) RLV_5018 .043 Main Jet
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Old 12-30-2019, 06:52 PM
Smerft85 Smerft85 is online now
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Get the non-hemi, and a predator 212cc will be plenty of engine for the average 12 year old, I'm 6' and 160ish pounds, a 212cc honda clone like the predator without the governor and decent gearing still gives it enough torque as well as top end that it will haul me up 40+mph without smoking the clutch (centrifugal clutch set up) with your torque converter set-up the overall feel of torque and top end would likely improve over my centrifugal, as well as feel smoother. My "212cc" is bone stock with governor delete, so with performance kits it could be nasty and scary fast, to my understanding you can buy stage 1-3 performance kits, and it would work on most of the genuine honda or clone engines. The 420cc may be a good way to stack up hospital bills.
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Old 12-30-2019, 09:41 PM
jmcdaniel0 jmcdaniel0 is offline
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Yea I was wondering about that.

Forgive the dumb question but what does hemp mean? And when it says stage 1-4 on the kit, what does that mean?
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Old 12-31-2019, 06:51 AM
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Uhhhhmmmmm, hemp is what THC is made out of(drugs) or something like that.

Hemi means that a particular engine has a hemispherical combustion chamber. There are many good characteristics with this design, including decreased valve shrouding. Look up mopar 426 hemi. It's one of the most legendary muscle care powerplants of all time.

As for Stage 1-4, that just helps make it easier to decide. The higher the stage, the more HP you will get, but for more $$$.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
Uhhhhmmmmm, hemp is what THC is made out of(drugs) or something like that.

Hemi means that a particular engine has a hemispherical combustion chamber. There are many good characteristics with this design, including decreased valve shrouding. Look up mopar 426 hemi. It's one of the most legendary muscle care powerplants of all time.

As for Stage 1-4, that just helps make it easier to decide. The higher the stage, the more HP you will get, but for more $$$.
Hemp is actually very low in thc, hemp is known for cbd content i.e. what relieves headaches and similar pain.
The hemi explanation however is pretty much spot on. Most didn't know here, maybe had a feeling, but I'm a medical grower...
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:38 AM
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Oh, well then.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
Uhhhhmmmmm, hemp is what THC is made out of(drugs) or something like that.
almost...

hemp is a plant that may or may not contain cbd or thc
it's a plant globally used to make cloth
(carrying bags mostly and ropes, clothes and bedsheets you name it)

cannabidiol (CBD) carrying hemp is referred to as cannabis,
that CBD is used is the mediacal industry as it's an antagonist to numerous drugs and can lessen sideeffects on cancer treatment for example, help glaucoma patients and whatnot
(the swiss army knife of drugs really... perfectly legal almost everywhere on this planet)

female cannabis plants produce a high amount of
Tetrahydrocannabinol (and that is the THC you're talking about [the more often illegal drug part])
which is able to twist your mind/mental state.

But not all hemp is cannabis, not all cannabis contains THC

I bet if you look around your home for a while you find at least six to seven items that contain hemp fibre
(rope, bags, pillow fillings... endless list aborted)

Aaaanyways:

HEMI head usually is a misleading term.
All heads are hemispherical to some degree..
the main difference and biggest selling point is the valve angle,
they're somewhat further apart and slightly tilted;
thus can be bigger compared to a std head..
means a higher throughput is possible.

higher throughput means more power potential (all else being equal).
if you can make use of that potential is a different story

'sid

PS oops slow typing I was... sry
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Old 12-31-2019, 09:56 AM
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Dang sid, we are looking like the old hippies of the thread!
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:42 AM
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Interesting.... I learned a bit about Hemp and Hemi's. Who knew a typo would result in knowledge.

So just to be clear, after debating with my wife and not wanting to kill my daughter, we decided to not get the 420cc and stick with the 212cc.


So is this engine the Hemi and non Hemi version? It does not specify one way or the other, that I saw any how.

https://www.harborfreight.com/65-hp-...arb-69727.html

Also. I saw on some of the parts it listed 1,2,3rd generations of this motor, how do I tell which it is?
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:54 PM
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Which generation is not as important as which head. You want product number 60363(not the one you listed).
You want the one shown below, with the cast aluminum valve cover. Do NOT get the one you listed, as it is the EPA/CARB version with a non-adjustable carburetor that will cause headaches if you try to modify it.
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
Which generation is not as important as which head. You want product number 60363(not the one you listed).
You want the one shown below, with the cast aluminum valve cover. Do NOT get the one you listed, as it is the EPA/CARB version with a non-adjustable carburetor that will cause headaches if you try to modify it.
Awesome! see im glad, I have some folks to rely on. This is stuff I just dont know, and was never taught. Now if yall want to talk about electrons, bonding and molecular structure, I am your man.

I saw the two different listings on that engine, and I wasnt sure of the difference.


So this is the one that I need?

https://www.harborfreight.com/65-hp-...epa-69730.html
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:42 PM
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You may not find it listed on the website. You will have to go in store to find the 60363 engine. It'll say on the box which it one it is. Not every store has that particular one in stock. If you do go with the non-hemi version, if you do want to get performance parts for it, you'll need to make sure that you get ones for the non-hemi version. Slight differences so the parts are not really that interchangeable.
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Old 12-31-2019, 06:19 PM
jmcdaniel0 jmcdaniel0 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartorbust View Post
You may not find it listed on the website. You will have to go in store to find the 60363 engine. It'll say on the box which it one it is. Not every store has that particular one in stock. If you do go with the non-hemi version, if you do want to get performance parts for it, you'll need to make sure that you get ones for the non-hemi version. Slight differences so the parts are not really that interchangeable.


Right. If I cant find it in store, and I wind up getting that one, if I plan on swapping the carb out for a better one, would it matter which version I got?

Also,

What clutch and torque converter would you recommend?
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:55 PM
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Be prepared, rebuilding a kart will cost you no less than $300 in parts.
If that is a problem, try to fix what you have.

Nice Kart
MrC.
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:56 PM
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A carburetor is a carburetor is a carburetor. The adapter from GoPowerSports for a 22mm Mikuni will fit on any of the 212 Predator engines. The only parts that are different are camshafts, rocker arms (I think), flywheels, and crankshafts.

If you buy a Hemi version, you can only use Hemi parts. Non-hemi can only get non-hemi parts. With modified engines, a centrifugal clutch is best to use. MaxTorque makes a great centrifugal clutch. If you are not modifying the engine, then a Comet 20 or 30 series Torq-a-verter.

Like mentioned, fix the kart up first, then engine and modifications. A modified engine can go from $250 (billet rod and flywheel) and significantly more depending how much money you want to throw at it.
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Old 01-01-2020, 08:38 AM
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Let me chime in here...

Nice catch on that Murray first off...130 bucks and you got one with most all of the parts in tact.

Most don't even have seat cushions...mine didn't.

Engine choices. I have a non-hemi 212 stage 1 with governor removed and it will easily carry the big Murray along at speeds over 40 mph. I have video and GPS to prove this.

Replacing carb? Why? The clone carb will support all but the more extreme engine upgrades. A mikuni is an expensive pain in the *** to get right.

Perspective...I am 6'2" tall and weigh 290 pounds. Big Murray kart @45 mph with good Accel and me in the seat. Stage one. Plenty of room to go up in power but...but... that's **** fast for that kind of kart design... pushing the limits of reality as far as good sense is concerned. I'm on a road trip right now so I'll share more later.
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWes View Post
Let me chime in here...

Nice catch on that Murray first off...130 bucks and you got one with most all of the parts in tact.

Most don't even have seat cushions...mine didn't.

Engine choices. I have a non-hemi 212 stage 1 with governor removed and it will easily carry the big Murray along at speeds over 40 mph. I have video and GPS to prove this.

Replacing carb? Why? The clone carb will support all but the more extreme engine upgrades. A mikuni is an expensive pain in the *** to get right.

Perspective...I am 6'2" tall and weigh 290 pounds. Big Murray kart @45 mph with good Accel and me in the seat. Stage one. Plenty of room to go up in power but...but... that's **** fast for that kind of kart design... pushing the limits of reality as far as good sense is concerned. I'm on a road trip right now so I'll share more later.


The kit I am planning to put on it is :

https://www.ombwarehouse.com/predato...-non-hemi.html


I値l be ordering the parts when I buy the engine. I知 just waiting until this weekend when I値l have time to run up to harbor freight.

I have already began stripping the cart. I have a few items left, then I知 taking the frame over to a buddies house. We are going to sand blast and paint the entire frame. I will look for weaknwelds at the same time when all paint and rust is off. I ordered a kegs highback seat and associated hardware to replace the seat, I am also going to install a harness instead of the standard safety belt.

---------- Post added at 04:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC. View Post
Be prepared, rebuilding a kart will cost you no less than $300 in parts.
If that is a problem, try to fix what you have.

Nice Kart
MrC.
That痴 not an unreasonable amount.
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Old 01-01-2020, 09:19 PM
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What are you expecting out of this kart that you want to run a stage 4 on it for?

I'm just curious is all. Because if I was wanting a machine to really go fast on I think I would pick a different chassis. The Murray Explorer is not a race machine. It is a rough and tumble back yard beater kart. Made for dirt, fields, and mild trail riding. It does really good on old dirt roads and well worn trails for sure.

I'm not saying you can't do what you are doing...it's your machine...but with the Murray chassis design you are going to start facing diminishing returns on engine performance upgrades. It would be like putting a Formula 1 engine into a pickup truck and taking it to a Formula 1 track. Yea, it'll go real fast until you hit that first turn...after that...hang on sports fans!
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Old 01-01-2020, 10:56 PM
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Default Don't go cracking the case without $$$ in pocket....

Stage 1 gets you a good start with stuff all on the outside of the case, improved airflow, bigger main jet, open header, etc. As stages go up, you have to crack open the case on a brand new motor and change the cam, piston rod, etc., and for what? Not for near the percentage of performance increase as the stage 1 got you.
If you want that much power, just get a 420 and run it stock out of the box. Your 12 year old's safety will likely be at risk whichever way you go, kids don't usually have good enough throttle sense for a powerful motor.
I don't know brand names, so I don't know if your kart has a roll cage or not, but remember this rule:
Roll cage = Full-body safety harness. Plus helmet of course.
No cage = No straps at all, not even a lap belt. But plus helmet of course. If it rolls over it can snap the neck of any driver that's not thrown clear of the machine.
About that hemi: This last one I got was the only hemi out of eight motors on the shelf. I loved the power I wrung out of modifying my last one, but know very little about the non-hemi, I do read good things about both.
If a hemi, the box will have a picture of the motor showing the dull rectangular valve cover, the non-hemi picture will be a (hexagonal or octagonal?) shiny stamped-out very flat top valve cover. Shove your hand through the carry hole in the box anyway and feel to verify. 60363 is indeed a hemi number, that's what both of mine are.

---------- Post added at 12:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 AM ----------

About that (hemp) "cannabis sativa" plant.....
The owner of Mother Holistic CBD is a good friend of mine, and has given me some various products containing the beneficial CBD oil base, and my experience is the truth about the much-argued benefits...
I swear by the concentrated liquid CBD oil that you rub into the skin over the spine of a ruined lower back, the effect of removing the persistent deep aching happens in less than a minute. The CBD cream sample given to me by my pharmacist works the same, just slower and I have to repeat a couple of times in a row. The CBD soap was useless.
NONE OF IT EVER altered my mental state, my physical balance, in other words no tetrahydrocannabinol was in any of it and it NEVER GOT ME HIGH.
Early '70s expert here, there's nothing about the recreational side of cannabis I don't know, so believe me, there is actual medicinal value in the right CBD products, and they're safe from having any intoxicating effect.
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