Help Identifying a frame

[dlwilliams3]

Hi everyone. I bought this kart cheap because I’m a bit of a hoarder, but haven’t done anything with it until recently when I acquired an engine to replace the Honda GX160 it came with. Trouble is I know nothing about karts and a google image search has been unsuccessful. Does anyone recognise the frame type? Previous owner did some welding so may look slightly different to original
Thanks
Daf

[Hellion]

It's some kind of sidewinder racing kart made for oval tracks. That help?
They all look alike pretty much and they are supposed to, in order to be competitive, so I don't know. Sid might though.

I'd look for a serial number or ID stamped into the frame.

More pics are going to help us help you.

[dlwilliams3]

Thanks Hellion. I’ve had a look for an ident number but I believe it’s been painted a few times so its not very obvious.
So, am I right to infer that most frames take on a similar design, then the add-on bits like engines, fuel tanks, pedal assemblies etc are largely universal?
I’ll get more photos up later. Thanks for now
Daf

[itsid]

that's not a oval kart IMHO.. it looks straight..

a lefty however
which is usually an indicator for it being made specifically for four stroke engines
(keeping the chain away from the driver)
emphasised by the huge seat offset (since a GX200 is much wider than a Kt100 )

But mfg is tough..
Maybe something shows up but allow me to ask:
"Why you want to know?"
Most of the times people just need parts.. (bearings, axles, spindles at times, brakes..)
and 99% of those are generic.. any will do as nicely as any other.
(as long as you avoid fun and yard kart parts but stick with race kart parts that is)
So why bother?

'sid

PS the GX160 it came with ... can we see it? chances are it's worth restoring and once done outperforming any un or lightly modded 212 easily

[Hellion]

On further consideration, I agree with Sid. Kart looks designed to turn both ways.

The oval track only karts are more 'wildly' asymmetrical in the frame.

[itsid]

Hmm..
man that's really a tough one.. I found a "ZIP GP X" or what's believed to be one..
that is awfully close, but not the same thing
V to the center crossbar, lefty.. all checked... but the shape is different..
lower steering column mount as well as the side bars

it's actually meant for either shifter or two cylinder two strokes.. never seen those were a thing tbh..
but appearantly they were

Anyways, I cannot confirm it to be a Zip Grand Prix X
albeit it's really a close call

if you find a serial /frame number stamped somewhere it'd make it easier to rule it out.

'sid

PS unfortunately I'm now mentally locked to zip karts.. will need to get that out of my system to restart a search...

[dlwilliams3]

Hi guys. A few pics showing the frame clearer. The frame doesn’t look like it has much of an offset, but the seat is off to one side and the steering wheel is angled that way also. Is this a feature of most karts to keep the drivetrain away from the rider?
Also, some pics of the GX140. I mistakenly thought it was a 160. The engine looks good under the layers of crud so I will give this a once-over before I decide what do do with it. Not very obvious in the photos is a chip in the cast near the sump plug which needs to be addressed.
Also, the reason I’d like to know is so that I have an idea what it’s intended purpose was. It came with golf buggy type wheels and tyres which suggested to me it wasn’t a racing kart but perhaps more of a grass-tracker.
Thanks for the help guys, sounds like you know your karts

[JTSpeedDemon]

No, that must be a racing kart frame that someone slapped turf tires on.
The seat and steering wheel offset applies to all modern racing karts, with the engine near the drivers' right elbow. As opposed to the old racing karts that had the engine right behind your back. Nowadays the yard karts are the purest descendant from the early racing karts.
I would keep the GX140 since it already came with the kart, and if you mod it out, you'll have a fast and balanced powerplant. Also it's a Honda, which means excellent reliability.

[itsid]

thanks for the pics.. well yes ... keep the gx140 it's a nice engine for sure (especially the older ones like yours)
but no, it's not a good engine for your kart really.. a 160 that age perhaps ... a 200 for sure..
a 120 or 140 unlikely;
still for some decent fun in the backyard sure,
but nothing you can peel oranges with


I'd remove all the nasty sheet metal PO welded in for no other reason than to p155 people off
finding a matching floorpan will be utterly difficult if not impossible
as long as you don't know make and model (I still don't for that matter)

BUT making one is easy really..
lay down some cardboard template,
mark the outline of the floor pan (inside all of the three triangles)
and the tab location and bolt holes of those.

transfer that to some flat aluminium sheet, bend up the wings for the front axle and
fix that with some proper floor panel bolts (generic kart stuff)

not only does it look 1000 times better it also allows the kart to properly twist and flex as anticipated by the manufacturer (quicker tighter turns under race conditions)

I could be wrong, but the right hand outer triangle flat stock appears to be original,
just like the weird front bumper with number plate...
which baffles me slightly..
as does the rear...uhm brackets? those do not seem to be original, yet they're nicely braced *shrugs*

Maybe two different PO's messed with the kart one of which a more talented welder/fabricator than the other??

We might never find out.

'sid

PS outboard chain.. what's the pitch? looks awfully lot like 219 to me

[Hellion]

What engine did you get to replace the Honda? I’ll lean in Sid’s direction and agree that the Honda is a bit too anemic for any real fun.

I think the main idea with these kind of frames was for weight distribution. Moving the engine more to the center, where the driver is, makes for more optimal handling than having the engine out back. It also made the frames more square, wider and flatter in the interests of handling.....

[dlwilliams3]

Agree, there are some questionable skills and poor choices on display here. The painted sheet metal a particular favourite of mine...
I pilot a number of UAVs, one of which uses a lightweight water-cooled rotary engine to turn a pusher propeller. The engine develops around 45hp and weighs less than the gx. I’d had this mad idea to fit it to the frame, but now I’m leaning more toward sticking with a Honda unit. I suppose finding a simple clutch capable of handling the increased power may be a challenge?

Daf

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by dlwilliams3

... I suppose finding a simple clutch capable of handling the increased power may be a challenge?

Not necessarily. The clutches just might be a bit pricier than you’re expecting if you’re looking for top of the line (like Bully Clutches).
Not sure you really need something *super* beefy. Once the clutch locks up you’re good to go pretty much...it’s the in-between moments (right before positive engagement) where there’s slippage and friction that such things might roast a lesser clutch.

Hmmm...

[dlwilliams3]

Ok, so the rotary may end up in the frame yet.
Thanks for all your answers guys, I’m happier now knowing a bit more about the frame type and knowing parts are quite generic. Apologies also, I realise this has gone on a bit too long in the wrong thread, I’ll post updates on the build in a more appropriate thread.

Daf

[itsid]

Any chance the rotary you are talking about has an AIXRO label on it?

Can't wait to see it

'sid

PS Dang now I wish Desertduler was still here, he'd be the one you'd want to talk to..