Go Back   DIY Go Kart Forum > Building Plans And Advice > All Other Parts

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:17 PM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default Con Rod Install Questions

So I'm almost ready to install the Raptor rod in my flathead, but I have a few questions:
Do I really need a piston ring compressor?
Are the Rotary brand gasket sets Ok?
And which way does the oil dipper point? Is the tapered side towards the front or back?
Attached Images
 
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-19-2019, 04:38 PM
Kartorbust's Avatar
Kartorbust Kartorbust is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 2,821
Thanks: 601
Thanked 758 Times in 638 Posts
Default

A ring compressor isnt that necessary, however, it'll prevent snapping rings when you drop the piston and rod into the block. They are cheap to buy.
__________________
In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-19-2019, 05:39 PM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Ok.
Also, I assume I need to break in the engine after popping the piston and rod out?
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-19-2019, 06:13 PM
Kartorbust's Avatar
Kartorbust Kartorbust is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 2,821
Thanks: 601
Thanked 758 Times in 638 Posts
Default

I'd follow all instructions that it came with it. I'm not sure if its recommended or not, I'll let someone else chime in on that to give an answer.
__________________
In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-19-2019, 06:22 PM
Randy H Randy H is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Thanks: 823
Thanked 461 Times in 361 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
Ok.
Also, I assume I need to break in the engine after popping the piston and rod out?
If by break-in you mean run it like you stole it. Then yeah break it in. Lol.

Seriously if your not replacing rings and honing the cylinder, then just run it.

As always my opinions.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Randy H For This Useful Post:
Kartorbust (09-19-2019)
  #6  
Old 09-20-2019, 09:07 AM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default

My rod didn't come with install instructions. Nor do I have the OEM flathead repair manual. Anything I need to know?
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:05 AM
itsid's Avatar
itsid itsid is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ruhrpott [Germany]
Posts: 10,228
Thanks: 1,396
Thanked 4,303 Times in 3,236 Posts
Default

Sure.. if it's a model 300000 or 320000
the piston will have a notch [1];
and an "F" mark [2] that points towards the valves..

Aand now the important part.. the conrod should have assembly markings[3]
(two nothches that need to align the two parts for correct assembly of the rod )
Those should be inline with the F mark on the piston
Click image for larger version

Name:	rodpistonalignment.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	22.5 KB
ID:	112055

what I found works rather well when you cannot find your piston ring compressor
is to use zipties (larger ones.. preferably reusable ones with a release lid)
use them to compress the piston rings.
usually they'll slide off when you tap the piston back in, and if not..
well then you know why a release lid comes in handy at times

'sid
__________________
Jokes about german sausage are the wurst.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to itsid For This Useful Post:
JTSpeedDemon (09-20-2019), LawnCrawler (10-17-2019), mckutzy (09-20-2019)
  #8  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:22 AM
Randy H Randy H is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Thanks: 823
Thanked 461 Times in 361 Posts
Default

Here's some reading for you.
I've got a couple things you can do to the rod to increase its longevity. If you want to know.

I'd shoot for. 0015-.003. Hope your .002. To tight you can do some journal or rod polishing, teehee. To loose you might think about using the heaviest weight oil recommended.

Keep in mind Plastigauge isn't a precision tool, much like Harbor Freight calipers. An engine builder would use a dial bore gauge and a likely vernier micrometer.
But you got to do the best you can with what you got.

https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Bri...s-Manuals-IPL/

https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Bri...n-Spec-Charts/

https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Bri...ls-Parts-List/
Attached Thumbnails
PSX_20190920_082121.jpg  

Last edited by Randy H; 09-22-2019 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Deleted some incorrect info.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Randy H For This Useful Post:
Flyinhillbilly (10-10-2019), JTSpeedDemon (09-20-2019)
  #9  
Old 09-20-2019, 01:27 PM
Randy H Randy H is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Thanks: 823
Thanked 461 Times in 361 Posts
Default

JT. Here's something you can check, if you want.

With the piston and rod removed, flywheel, sidecover and coil in place. Give the flywheel a spin.

I've seen the bearing /or bushing so worn that when the magnet passed the coil you can see movement in the flywheel.

Hope your good but it's a kind of a big deal if your flywheel is shuckin around.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-20-2019, 02:05 PM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default

You mean the flywheel side bearing?
I've got a dual flange mounted ball bearing block, but I'll check that for sure.


Come to think of it, when I spin the flywheel on my 3 HP flathead, that flywheel doesn't spin true, it looks like the crankshaft is bent, but it always gets the proper coil gap.
I guess that means the bearing needs replacement?
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-20-2019, 02:29 PM
Randy H Randy H is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Thanks: 823
Thanked 461 Times in 361 Posts
Default

Yes the flywheel side bearing.

I don't know for sure, but more than a couple thousands of runout would be concerning, to me.

You might secure the engine and carefully pry up on the flywheel. Kind of need a dial indicator but this too will show movement. IDK, maybe try a feeler gauge. If it's real bad you may see it. A leaky seal would be an indicator too. Then again maybe it's just a bad seal.

If the crank is bent, I may have one hanging out. LMK and I'll check.

Hope you can decipher this, haha.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-20-2019, 02:47 PM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Dang, now I really wish I knew the actual code for this engine. Then I could track down parts for it. I need to remove the flywheel anyway to access the ignition points, so I'll check to see if the crank is bent or the bearing is shot. Given that it used to be on a tiller, it was probably just beat up and it's the flywheel side bearing.
BTW - Thanks for all of your input Randy, you're a great help.

---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

Also I can't see why the flywheel side of the crank would be bent unless someone dropped it on a ledge with the blower housing off. *shrug*
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JTSpeedDemon For This Useful Post:
Randy H (09-20-2019)
  #13  
Old 09-20-2019, 03:03 PM
Randy H Randy H is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Thanks: 823
Thanked 461 Times in 361 Posts
Default

A lot of times tillers are great finds. They get used a year or two. Then sit for a while, then they don't start. And I pick em up at the scrapyard for .25/lb.��

I appreciate the appreciation. Lol.

It brings back memories of tearing these things down with my sons when they much younger. Just a mere 25 years ago. And they remember too.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Randy H For This Useful Post:
JTSpeedDemon (09-20-2019)
  #14  
Old 09-22-2019, 12:51 AM
Hellion's Avatar
Hellion Hellion is online now
Disc brakes'r for cowards
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Location: Location:
Posts: 4,735
Thanks: 1,688
Thanked 1,372 Times in 1,121 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
My rod didn't come with install instructions. Nor do I have the OEM flathead repair manual. Anything I need to know?
Here's the Briggs L-head service manual. I'm surprised you didn't already have it in your oil-stained hands (it's in our FAQ)... https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6Na...s3Z2Q2X00/edit

You need the torque specs for the con rod end cap screws. 100 in. lbs. (stock rod) for your application; it's a 5 HP 130000 series. Right?
I imagine the Raptor rod is the same spec.

A piston ring compressor is a great help, especially if you're truly flathead-crazed.
There's some Bubbas out there who can compress the ends of the rings together with a flat-head screwdriver, but that's an easy way to gouge or score the aluminum with the harder screwdriver if it slips.

Assembly lube is helpful but fresh engine oil applied to all the moving parts (especially both ends of the con rod) right before you button it up would be fine.

If you're looking into the engine and the rod is installed, the angled side of the dipper should face the left side of the block. I am fairly certain that if installed in the reverse, the straight edge of the dipper will hit the block as the piston comes up. This will of course help you in orienting the con rod on which way it is supposed to face.

EDIT--put the piston back in the same way it came out. Very important to retain/maintain the same wear pattern.

Helpful video:
__________________
"I'm just here for the gasoline"

Last edited by Hellion; 09-22-2019 at 01:06 AM. Reason: MORE USELESS INFO
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hellion For This Useful Post:
JTSpeedDemon (09-22-2019), Randy H (09-22-2019)
  #15  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:38 AM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Awesome, thanks man!
Yup, 130000 series.
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:40 AM
Randy H Randy H is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Thanks: 823
Thanked 461 Times in 361 Posts
Default

Eek, looks like I was wrong on the connecting rod install. I sure hope I didn't cause JT any problems. If so LMK and I will make it right.

Very sorry.

Removed some incorrect info from a previous post.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:43 AM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Ahh, it's ok. I'd like to get everyone's input, that way I have a better chance at winding up qith the correct info.
Just yesterday I ordered some some green plastiguage through Shamazon.
This is the 3rd time I've used their free Prime trial, and I will continue to do so to get free shipping.
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-22-2019, 08:25 PM
Randy H Randy H is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 888
Thanks: 823
Thanked 461 Times in 361 Posts
Default

This confirms the video that Hellion posted.

Lesson to me. RTFM.
Attached Thumbnails
PSX_20190922_211655.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Randy H For This Useful Post:
JTSpeedDemon (09-22-2019)
  #19  
Old 09-22-2019, 08:25 PM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Oh, after looking through the flathead service manual, I realize that I was mixed up carb-wise.
I thought I had a one piece Flo-Jet, but it turns out I have a two piece, as it's determined by if the intake manifold is integrated to the carb or not. So, I have a 2 piece.
Thanks for that manual Hellion! And the video.
I'm gonna wait to install the rod until I can get a piston ring compressor.
If I'm gonna do it at all I'm gonna do it right, that way I don't have to do it again!
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-10-2019, 11:00 AM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,507
Thanks: 624
Thanked 333 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Ok, I've got everything now, since the green Plastiguage and ring compressor came in, as well as the gasket set.
I also checked flywheel runout, and it spins nice and true(thank to the dual flange mounted ball bearings)
Honestly I would never trade this flathead for any other one with how comparatively exotic and clean this one is.
So now I just need to get over my mental block and git 'r done.
Mostly I'm worried about a sidecover or head bolt breaking, but that's a risk I'll have to take.
I guess I'll have to persuade myself by saying "The longer it waits, the more it corrodes!"
I think I'm actually going to try and do it today.
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:17 PM.