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Old 08-01-2019, 11:20 PM
Noah burkhardt Noah burkhardt is offline
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Default Wanting to build predator 212

I'm sure there is a whole metric ton of threads of build list for a predator 212 but I am too new to this site to find them.

Anywho I want to build a 212 for my baja 200. As it sits new it is a fully stock motor besides an ebay torque converter. I want to keep it within 300 max.

Thank you!
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:39 PM
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Here is some basics, they are cheap to get you started....
https://affordablegokarts.com/pages/performance-basics

Overall what is it you want to do??
Race or ride?

And before you say it... stop.... no your not going 60mph...
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Old 08-02-2019, 12:02 AM
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Cam $40, carb $100, flywheel $100, $rod 60. Springs $10

Basically get a stage 2 kit and add on the carb.
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Old 08-02-2019, 03:18 AM
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Don’t forget the header. $25-$45 plus shipping.
Robertson Torque Tubes makes an “under the seat” header specifically for Baja minibikes. $45 plus shipping. Side exit (leg burner) options are cheaper.

PVL Flywheels are only $65 plus shipping, instead of the $100 or $105 plus shipping for a billet one.

The 22mm carb kit that GPS sells for $98 can be had for cheaper.
The manifold is around $20. The carb is around $30. The filter is around $8. The throttle cable is around $15.
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckutzy View Post
Here is some basics, they are cheap to get you started....
https://affordablegokarts.com/pages/performance-basics

Overall what is it you want to do??
Race or ride?

And before you say it... stop.... no your not going 60mph...
I just want a decently fast bike mainly for the street and a little bit of offroad
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:06 PM
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Hemi or non hemi?

And since you are using a TC, you’ll want a cam that pulls from about 2000 or 2500 rpm to about 6500 or 7000 RPM.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob58o View Post
Hemi or non hemi?

And since you are using a TC, you’ll want a cam that pulls from about 2000 or 2500 rpm to about 6500 or 7000 RPM.
I have a hemi. What kind of cam would you recommend that doesnt require cutting the block and stuff
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah burkhardt View Post
I have a hemi. What kind of cam would you recommend that doesnt require cutting the block and stuff
My Black Mamba Jr was a drop in on my Hemi.
Good cam for your application.
A cheaper option would be a dynocams 265
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:10 PM
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My Black Mamba Jr was a drop in on my Hemi.
Good cam for your application.
A cheaper option would be a dynocams 265
I'll look into that. What about valve springs? Did you run stock ones or 18#?
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Old 08-03-2019, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah burkhardt View Post
I'll look into that. What about valve springs? Did you run stock ones or 18#?
Black mamba Jr- I ran 26 lb springs. I turned at least 7k RPM on my mini with torque converter.

I think the 265 cam wants 22lb springs.
https://www.dynocams.com/item/cl-cm/
https://www.dynocams.com/item/dcs-bp/

As far as clearancing , I’m not 100% sure which cams are drop in. The Hemi crankshaft’s Rod journal has pretty tall “lips” around it. I tend to grind those “lips” shorter.
The CM (265) cam has a note saying some clearancing may be required...
“Note: Block or crankshaft may require clearancing to clear camshaft lobes.
7500 Max RPM.”
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Old 08-03-2019, 12:52 AM
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Black mamba Jr was cheaper when I got mine.
It was $75 IIRC
https://smallenginecams.com/store#
I’d like to recommend the Rattlesnake cam. It seems perfect for what you want. However, I’ve heard others say the Mongoose cam (which seems like the same series of camshaft) has had problems with the lobes going flat. It says it does not need block modifications.
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Old 08-03-2019, 03:45 AM
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Remind me....
Baja’s have 19” tires and a 50 tooth #40/41/420 rear sprocket???
Should take tire size and gear ratio into consideration when selecting a camshaft.
BTW, I think you will get around 60mph. Lol Those crazy Canadians get confused when we talk about miles instead of kilometers.

For example, if you do have 19” tires and a 50T rear sprocket...
I’d put a 8T sprocket on the TC.
When the TC shifts to overdrive, 6000 RPM will be 60mph.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:47 AM
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I see what you did there.......

Naa I knew what I was talking about... or I would've said about 100kph...Instead of 60mph...
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob58o View Post
Remind me....
Baja’s have 19” tires and a 50 tooth #40/41/420 rear sprocket???
Should take tire size and gear ratio into consideration when selecting a camshaft.
BTW, I think you will get around 60mph. Lol Those crazy Canadians get confused when we talk about miles instead of kilometers.

For example, if you do have 19” tires and a 50T rear sprocket...
I’d put a 8T sprocket on the TC.
When the TC shifts to overdrive, 6000 RPM will be 60mph.
Instead of changing the front sprocket to 8 can I change the rear sprocket to something like a 62 and have the same effect?
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Noah burkhardt View Post
Instead of changing the front sprocket to 8 can I change the rear sprocket to something like a 62 and have the same effect?
Yes, it is actually better for the sprockets and chain to do it your way. They will wear slower. It is just cheaper to swap the front sprocket. It only costs $15 to replace the front sprocket.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:24 PM
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What are your guy's opinions on the go power sports stage 2 kit? If you were to buy it would you get the mod 2 or the hot 265 cam? And why?
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:23 AM
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265 Cam.
More lift and less duration. Duration moves the power band to higher RPMs. Not ideal for your situation, IMO. But, again, depends on your gear ratio. Making power at 7k RPM won’t do you any good if you are geared so that 7k RPM happens at 85 mph. Lift will make more power at lower RPM. Any kit is a waste of money. Search for the parts individually and save money. If you are on a budget, kits are your enemy.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:02 PM
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Everybody seems determined to make you split the case on your brand new engine, and it doesn't seem you're ready for any machining or for that matter any real engine rebuilding. Start basic, and with that TC you can end up with some serious kick without even getting greasy.
BASICS: Throw out the factory "box" air filter for a billet venturi (not flat) intake adapter for a high flow (usually a cone shape) air filter, and do use the dust jacket on it, they're hard to clean right. Throw out the factory "box" muffler for a header pipe threaded for a screw-on muffler. NOTE that the muffler will stifle you right back to near square one, it's only for if neighbors and police force you to use it. Order a matching set of main and idle performance jets for the carb, takes one little wrench and a Phillips head, and forget about changing the E-tube. Disconnect all the hardware on top of the engine for the governor, and run your throttle cable direct to the carb. Voila! You're now running about 10 hp., and never had to split the case. If you feel like pulling off the flywheel (and have a good INCH/LBS torque wrench to put it back) you can order a timing advance (offset) key for more performance, less than $10 for a pack of three of your choice. I used a #7 (8.4 degrees advance)(1.2 degrees per number). Drive/driven sprocket ratio is everything in determining power vs. speed. Regardless of the specific tooth count, figure the ratio only. A 12/60 set like I'm running (1:5 ratio) makes way too much top end, it's terrifying. Conversely, a 10/72 set (1:7.2 ratio) would have a lower top end, but be stronger on acceleration. bob58o is correct about the front (drive) sprocket being cheapest to replace, start there. More teeth there will give higher top end, with less low end torque. Look online for a set of mods that includes some of the aforementioned stuff, and compare to buying individual stuff, get what's less costly, just get the right stuff.

---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 PM ----------

Adding on: Maybe it's up there somewhere, but I didn't notice anywhere that you were advised to replace the factory iron flywheel with a billet aftermarket wheel. If you keep your factory valve springs, they'll prevent a disaster of ungoverned rpm's gone wild by starting to "float" above 5K rpm's and preventing too much rpm. Putting on heavier valve springs without a billet flywheel replacing the factory iron, the rpm's can spool up high enough to make the factory flywheel blow apart and send shrapnel through the case, your Levis, your socks, and guess what, your leg. Doctors will be splitting your own case to replace parts inside.
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madprofessor View Post
Everybody seems determined to make you split the case on your brand new engine, and it doesn't seem you're ready for any machining or for that matter any real engine rebuilding. Start basic, and with that TC you can end up with some serious kick without even getting greasy.
BASICS: Throw out the factory "box" air filter for a billet venturi (not flat) intake adapter for a high flow (usually a cone shape) air filter, and do use the dust jacket on it, they're hard to clean right. Throw out the factory "box" muffler for a header pipe threaded for a screw-on muffler. NOTE that the muffler will stifle you right back to near square one, it's only for if neighbors and police force you to use it. Order a matching set of main and idle performance jets for the carb, takes one little wrench and a Phillips head, and forget about changing the E-tube. Disconnect all the hardware on top of the engine for the governor, and run your throttle cable direct to the carb. Voila! You're now running about 10 hp., and never had to split the case. If you feel like pulling off the flywheel (and have a good INCH/LBS torque wrench to put it back) you can order a timing advance (offset) key for more performance, less than $10 for a pack of three of your choice. I used a #7 (8.4 degrees advance)(1.2 degrees per number). Drive/driven sprocket ratio is everything in determining power vs. speed. Regardless of the specific tooth count, figure the ratio only. A 12/60 set like I'm running (1:5 ratio) makes way too much top end, it's terrifying. Conversely, a 10/72 set (1:7.2 ratio) would have a lower top end, but be stronger on acceleration. bob58o is correct about the front (drive) sprocket being cheapest to replace, start there. More teeth there will give higher top end, with less low end torque. Look online for a set of mods that includes some of the aforementioned stuff, and compare to buying individual stuff, get what's less costly, just get the right stuff.

---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 PM ----------

Adding on: Maybe it's up there somewhere, but I didn't notice anywhere that you were advised to replace the factory iron flywheel with a billet aftermarket wheel. If you keep your factory valve springs, they'll prevent a disaster of ungoverned rpm's gone wild by starting to "float" above 5K rpm's and preventing too much rpm. Putting on heavier valve springs without a billet flywheel replacing the factory iron, the rpm's can spool up high enough to make the factory flywheel blow apart and send shrapnel through the case, your Levis, your socks, and guess what, your leg. Doctors will be splitting your own case to replace parts inside.
The reason people are suggesting he cracks open the case is because he asked how to build up an engine. That usually involves cracking open the case. Yes, you can go for a new exhaiust box etc, but those are just bolt ons.

You have a point though....there are things you can do without open the engine up
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madprofessor View Post
I didn't notice anywhere that you were advised to replace the factory iron flywheel with a billet aftermarket wheel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KartFab View Post
Cam $40, carb $100, flywheel $100, $rod 60. Springs $10

Basically get a stage 2 kit and add on the carb.
Says FLYWHEEL $100

---------- Post added at 01:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob58o View Post
PVL Flywheels are only $65 plus shipping, instead of the $100 or $105 plus shipping for a billet one.
Says FLYWHEEL $65

---------- Post added at 01:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by madprofessor View Post
Disconnect all the hardware on top of the engine for the governor, and run your throttle cable direct to the carb.
That’s terrible advice. Bypassing the governor, but leaving it in place, will lead the engine failure. Tiny little pieces of Governor gear assembly in the crankcase will be catastrophic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madprofessor View Post
. If you feel like pulling off the flywheel (and have a good INCH/LBS torque wrench to put it back)
You don’t need an INCH-POUND torque wrench to torque the flywheel nut to 54 FOOT-POUNDS, which is 648 Inch-Pounds.
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