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  #21  
Old 01-09-2020, 07:44 AM
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itsid itsid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madprofessor View Post
Split rims with tubes only!
Quote:
Originally Posted by madprofessor View Post
In fact, I wouldn't consider the outer circumference of a split rim to be a "bead" at all.
that's a generalisation I cannot agree with.

there are some great kart racing split rims that are meant to take tubeless tyres.
(they come with a sealing gasket in case you wonder)
the extreme width and rather high rim collar with the ultralight magnesium alloy
makes it almost impossible to otherwise mount a tyre in the first place.
three piece rims like the famous and beautiful margays for example..
Dinos magnificent golden magnesium wheels or OTK
and an endless list of racing rims of the past and present.


but back to topic..
that mower tyre from tractorsupply (11x4-5 4PR was the one, right?)
If I followed that image url pointed me towards a tubed HIRUN tyre.
and as it's listed as tubed...
I'd say it should indeed fit the 5" rim from BMI

unless someone swapped the four and the five by accident,
then you end up with a 11x5-4 for a 4" diameter rim,
which of course cannot fit the 5" rim

'sid
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  #22  
Old 01-09-2020, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
that mower tyre from tractorsupply (11x4-5 4PR was the one, right?)
If I followed that image url pointed me towards a tubed HIRUN tyre.
and as it's listed as tubed...
I'd say it should indeed fit the 5" rim from BMI

unless someone swapped the four and the five by accident,
then you end up with a 11x5-4 for a 4" diameter rim,
which of course cannot fit the 5" rim

'sid
The tires I linked too previously were not available when I was ready to order, so I ended up with these tires, which are listed at the same 11x4.00-5 size. Same tire, different brand.




These are my 5" split rims , which were sourced from BMI Karts:





In this video (though it's not the same wheel and tire) he simply drops 1/2 of the wheel into the tire, which is exactly what I expected to be doing, but it ain't happening.

I guess it's possible I didn't get what I wanted as far as the tires, but per the label on their sidewall, they should fit a 5" wheel.

This problem is kind of holding me up because the whole thing needs to fit inside a particular space on my trailer so it can be transported to events. Kind of difficult to do a complete mock-up without wheels and tires.

I'll try to get measurements on the actual parts in hand in the next day or two and report back with my findings.

Thanks for all the help so far guys. I'm sure I'll have more questions as the build moves forward.
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  #23  
Old 01-09-2020, 03:13 PM
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I’m about to have a couple of left front slicks from a race kart that I’d give you for the cost of shipping if they’d be of any help to you. I’ll actually have two full sets since I’m rotating out the tires we raced on last year to a new set, and these are leftovers. I have no use for them and will just throw them away unless someone wants them.
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  #24  
Old 01-09-2020, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aka Larry View Post
The tires I linked too previously were not available when I was ready to order... Same tire, different brand.
....
if that image is of the actual tire (and not just a placeholder image to show 'smooth tread')
That sidewall says "TUBELESS"
(rear edge you need to look closely)

And with that the madprofessor is correct.. it's not a good tyre for your rim

I remember someone used tubeless with tubes on steel split rims
but I cannot recall when or who

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Old 01-09-2020, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
I remember someone used tubeless with tubes on steel split rims
but I cannot recall when or who

'sid
Ive been doing this for years and thought nothing of it nor had any issues , the 6in BMI rim was spun by a gx340 clone burning on pavement and the bead never slipped or anything.

Might just be those particular hi-runs , or maybe I have just been lucky. Who knows.

At work I had a pair of 5in HI run slicks I could not get the bead to seat all the way on the tubeless rim for the front of a zero turn , and I had to put kendas on it. I think it was the same brand size and tread you are having issues with. Co worker had same experience.
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  #26  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:01 PM
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Awesome, thank you..

So at least that mostly worked for you...
a positive result is a positive result

If all else fails try Cheng Shin 4.10x3.5-5
that's what I have on my manco rims... they're clearly labelled "Tube Tyre"
and with ~10.5 OD and ~3.5 width they should fit right into your ballpark size

'sid
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  #27  
Old 01-10-2020, 06:48 AM
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My tires are indeed labeled tubeless, but I didn't figure that would be a problem since I'm running tubes and not trying to use the bead to make the seal. Maybe I was wrong?

I measured the tires this morning at the I.D. is 4-7/8". I measured the wheels and the O.D. is 6", which should make it a 5" wheel.

Any other suggestions besides send these tires back and buy different ones?

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinhillbilly View Post
Im about to have a couple of left front slicks from a race kart that Id give you for the cost of shipping if theyd be of any help to you. Ill actually have two full sets since Im rotating out the tires we raced on last year to a new set, and these are leftovers. I have no use for them and will just throw them away unless someone wants them.
Do think they will fit my 3.5" wide wheels? If so, and you have (4), please send them my way. I'd be happy to pay shipping costs and something for your trouble. Contact me via e-mail at vkeenez24@gmail.com.

Thanks!
MERGED
I took one half of my wheel to the local TSC store at lunch today, just to try another couple of 11x4.00-5 tires to see how they fit the wheel. I had pretty much the same result.

My current plan is to use more lube and various clamping methods this weekend to see if I can this d@mn tire on my wheel. I might not ever get it back off, but I swear by some mechanical means, it's going on there!


Last edited by itsid; 01-10-2020 at 11:58 PM.
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  #28  
Old 01-10-2020, 11:57 PM
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measure the wheel bed in diameter if it's much more than those 4 7/8" like say the full five inches,
I bet you'll have a terribly time trying.
the bead is steel wire reinforced usually; no way that steel wire stretches,
so just the few millimeters of rubber that may or may not move out of the way.

And frankly I wouldn't put any bets on it doing so..

'sid
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2020, 08:28 AM
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Default Fancy's outta my league.....

Impressive list of tire facts run off by sid, and way outta my league. Never even seen a sanctioned kart race, much less had the chance to learn anything about high dollar wheels and tires.
However, I am all about getting things done the easy way, as long as the final result works perfectly, doesn't cause problems later, and keeps money in my pocket.
Think I'd better just stick to commenting on things that don't spool out past my experience.
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  #30  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:39 AM
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Never say never!

You know how sometimes you just get the mind set of "this thing is not going to beat me!"? Well that was me on Saturday afternoon. I don't have a tire machine, but I do have an old HF hydraulic press, so I decided to make a jig and see what would happen.

Using some 3/4" plywood, I cut a donut that was sized to fit the wheel and tire, and then added a pair of 2x4s to the bottom as seen here:





Next, I cut a disc sized to fit the center of the wheel and put the entire assembly in the press like so:





I used dish soap on the beads and was able to press one half of the wheel into the tire. Then I was able to fish the tube in the assembles half, and bolt the halves together, leaving just the opposite bead to seat. I'll admit I was nervous about just how much air pressure it would take, especially with my hands right next to the source of the potential shrapnel. Fortunately, I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the opposite bead seated.

As with most anything, once you do it the first time, the next time goes much quicker so the remaining three went together in pretty short order.


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01-Wheel Jig.jpg   02-Wheel Jig.jpg  

03-Wheel Assemblies.jpg  
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  #31  
Old 01-13-2020, 06:47 AM
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With the wheels and tires together, I was finally able to get started on the frame yesterday. I started by sizing the main frame rail's spacing, by using the cooler itself as a guide. Once I had that measurement, I used my band saw to cut the side rails, lower supports, rear bumper, and the front axle.

I decided to hit the easy button and just buy the spindles pre-made from BMI. Probably not necessary, but I decided to set the spindles with 5 degrees of caster before tack welding them to the front axle.

Here's where I am right now...







Next up is to build the rear axle and make it a roller.

Stay tuned...
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  #32  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:41 AM
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Well done on getting the wheels sorted out! That was some real DIY!
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  #33  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:12 PM
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I've been busy all week, but tomorrow I'm getting back to this build.

I've been ordering parts little by little every week, and stupidly keeping a spreadsheet. Man it does add up fast!

Stay tuned as I hope to have updated pics on Monday.
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  #34  
Old 01-20-2020, 08:06 AM
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Finally got back on this project Saturday afternoon.

I'm not used to designing as a I go, which makes it a slow-go for me. Lots of measuring, fit-up, re-measuring, re-fit up, etc. This was especially true with the rear axle because the stubs are different lengths due to the drive wheel.

Once I finally figured out the rear axle length, I had to weld the stubs (5/8" bolts) to each end of the 1" tubing. To keep it square, I made a quick jig with some angle and a few clamps as seen here:




Then I tacked the rear axle to the rear of the frame...




Fortunately the bolt pattern for almost all small engines is the same. I could have made my own engine mounting plate with my plasma cutter, but I would needed to fab a special jig for the slots. I decided that it was not worth my time when I could purchase a pre-made laser-cut plate on-line for $7.95. The plate needed to be raised for access to the bolts, so I tacked it to a pair of 3/4" square tubes.




Engine plate tacked in place on the frame:




Engine mock up to be sure the drive sprockets are properly aligned:





I stopped at the point on Saturday feeling like I had made decent progress.
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06-axle_stub.jpg   07-rear_axle.jpg  

08-engine_plate.jpg   09-rear_mock-up.jpg  

10-engine_test.jpg  
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  #35  
Old 01-20-2020, 08:08 AM
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Sunday I was feeling good knowing the progress I made on Saturday, and I had pretty much all day to work.

I had already fabricated the side pods where my feet were supposed to rest, so I wanted to check their placement. The first thing I did was to sit the cooler in place to check my seating position. As soon as I sat down I noticed my feet were waaaay too far forward, meaning the rear axle, engine mount, and cooler supports would need to be moved backwards. Of course that meant that almost all the work I did on Saturday would need to be redone...dammit!

I started by cutting all the tacks loose, so I could move everything back 2". This meant I had to re-align the axle, engine mount, drive sprockets etc all over again. Once I had everything re-positioned, I rolled the frame outside to be sure it would positively fit on my trailer, which fortunately it did with a little room to spare.

Once all the above was done, I placed the cooler back on the frame for another rider fitment. The problem was I couldn't move everything back as far as I'd like due to the length restriction imposed by my trailer. Therefore the side pods for the foot rest just ain't happening.

In my normal seating position, my feet sit right on top of the front tires. No way around that fact, so what to do? Hold my feet up in the air while I drive? No. Place foot pegs behind me like a motorcycle? No. Even though I hadn't planned on having fenders, that seemed like my only option for a place to rest my feet, so I proceeded down that path.

I started by using my plasma cutter to cut a 8" wide strip of 1/8" steel plate. I then cut that plate into a 16" length and bent it in half at a 45 degree angle. I then notched it to fit the frame. It didn't have enough structure as is, so built a strut with some 3/4" square tube and tacked it in place as seen here on the right:







Side view showing the fender, cooler, and engine mock-up:






I plan to dress the fender up with some rounded corners, and possibly some trim. I'm also going to add some expanded metal onto to the fenders for grip.

Stay tuned....
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  #36  
Old 01-20-2020, 08:11 AM
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I need to make a cooler kart to get around Pate Swap Meet! One: cruise around in style, two: don't have to walk, three: lots of cold drinks for me, and four: Sell ice cream and sodas!

Perfect swap meet cruiser!
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:02 AM
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I just love the look of that cooler!!! The matt metal look will go well with the kart.

I am going to move this thread over to the project log section, as it is turning out to be more suited for that subforum
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  #38  
Old 01-22-2020, 12:27 AM
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I think I just seen this over on the Garage Journal forum
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:33 AM
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I think I just seen this over on the Garage Journal forum
Yep, that's me. I'm on that forum as well.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:14 PM
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I just remembered that I have an old metal ice chest from the 60's sitting at the farm. I think a vintage build with one of my 3hp flathead Briggs will look cool. I will be sure to follow your build.
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