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Old 12-12-2019, 01:18 PM
Jamie P Jamie P is offline
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Default Live axle thoughts

I'm in the planning stage of my daughter's go kart build. Mine is done and zipping around the yard, but with one-wheel drive there's a lot more ripping up grass than zipping across it.

My daughter's cart has a strange rear axle setup (at least strange to a noob like myself). It has a keyed 1" axle on the "driver's side", but the axle spins through the frame to the other side where it spins inside of the bearings of the "passenger side" rear wheel. Strangely, the axle narrows to 3/4" after it exits the frame, and the narrow portion is not keyed.

I expect that my daughter and I will spend a lot of time zooming around the lawn since we have over an acre of grass, but I'm imagining that every time she stops she'll end up spinning. I'll probably spend more time pushing her than driving. I have new tires on my kart, and I (sort of) know how to drive, and I do a lot of spinning in place. Now might be the time to abandon this go kart and start the search for one with a true live axle, but before I go that route I wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts on turning this kart into two-wheel drive.
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:40 PM
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Just take out the old axle, measure it, and get an axle that is 1" and keyed the whole way. Also, you'll want to swap out that bearing hub for a keyed one. (You'll want a standard axle.)
https://www.gopowersports.com/go-kar...rt-axle-parts/
https://www.bmikarts.com/Go-Kart-Axles
https://www.bmikarts.com/Go-Kart-Wheel-Hubs
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:56 PM
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appears to be a T&D Klipper Kart

later models had a tubed live axle (earlier ones had the live axle open)
(catching shirts and scalping long haired girls and such... most manufacturers covered ALL rotating parts at one point)

And yes, the right rear wheel should be powered by the axle..
it being turned down to accept a 3/4" bearing is most likely some PO's work

especially the two seater models don't steer too well and with the relatively wide rears
it's one way of improving the steering
(the WRONG way.. but easier than fixing the geometry to some)
especially if you still have the TC installed
(the left side should hava a seperate mount for a series 20 TC if it's a klipper kart)
having the second wheel driven makes it much less likely to just ruin the left one prematurely.
and most importantly...
you want BOTH rear wheels to be stoppable by a brake
and since you only have one, you really want a working live axle.

'sid
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
appears to be a T&D Klipper Kart
I dont know, It looks identical to my old pathwinder kart, that had the identical 1in axle, with a stepdown to 3/4 , and bearing hub for dead wheel. Thats the factory setup, not modified at all.

The upper tube runs parallel to the frame, on a klipper it does not.

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13389

I would just buy a 4 on 4 hub with 3/4 bore and grind a keyway on the existing axle.

Edit- that was 8 years ago holy crap lol I still have all 4 rims off the kart and 2 tires.
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:07 PM
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Carsandcameras' Crue Cut Indy 500 had the same live axle/rear right bearing wheel setup. In that case it was to keep the drivetrain within the body.
I would modify it to full live axle, most of the components are already there.
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karl View Post
I dont know, It looks identical to my old pathwinder kart
The Pathwinder is also a T&D kart.. so yeah true true might very well be
a Pathwinder
(from that pic it's indeed hard to tell)
I think I know what you mean by parallel .. but can't tell from that angle if the two tubes are perfectly on a vertical plane [like on a pathwinder] or slightly offset [like on a Klipper]

But I just remember one turned down live axle on a Pathwinder around here..
since that simply doesn't make any sense in terms of manufacturing costs.
(the turning down costs extra and the freewheeling hub is more expensive than a live hub..)
And since T&D had that recall on ALL their karts
(having to sleeve the live axle with a tube)
it'd be certainly MUCH cheaper to just ditch the live axle for a dead one instead.

Only thing I could imagine is,
that they quickly -makeshift- converted the karts that have been recalled cheapest way possible.
by reusing the axle that's already been on the kart.

I still cannot remember them converting from live to dead axle during the recall.. since it's still not the smartest idea IMHO


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Old 12-13-2019, 07:25 AM
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It's cool to see how much you guys are into the history of these karts. Sorry to leave you guessing what this one is. Of course I have no idea since it has no original stickers or labels anywhere, but from the photo I'm guessing someone on here will know.

Pulling the old axle out and installing a live axle and a keyed hub makes sense. This old kart also needs a clutch, chain, throttle cable, and the tires are pretty worn and dry cracked. I have to decide if it's worth investing in all those parts. It probably makes more sense to keep my eyes open for something that is in better shape.

Thanks for all your help.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:42 AM
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I'd get it going again. Of course I just spent $800 getting a Carter kids kart going (they weren;t kidding when they said "kids"), but that was with lots of non-factory goodies.

I'd say, off the top of my head, it'd cost about $35 for the clutch, $20 ish for the chain, About $20 for the throttle cable (if the cable hooks up to a throttle rod, just go to a bike shop and buy a brake cable, they work pretty well, and they're like $10 where I go for a 6ft cable). Axles are $50-$90 depending on the length. Tires are $20-$30 a piece (I'm assuming 13x5-6 or 15x6-6), and if those are split sprockets, you'll need tubes. And if you're on a cheapo budget, you might be able to find a used pressure washer with a broken pump for the engine. Just make sure it isn't a honda GC series. They don't have remote operation throttle controls, so you'd have to make one. If not a predator 212 is $125 at harbor freight, $100 with a coupon. I'd suggest getting the pn 69730 non hemi. They're put together better than the 60363 hemis. (The hemi I got a few months back was revving 4700rpm, about where the governor flies apart inside the engine, with the stock governor setting, and started backfiring every time you let off the gas, so it went back)
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie P View Post
It's cool to see how much you guys are into the history of these karts. Sorry to leave you guessing what this one is. Of course I have no idea since it has no original stickers or labels anywhere, but from the photo I'm guessing someone on here will know.

Pulling the old axle out and installing a live axle and a keyed hub makes sense. This old kart also needs a clutch, chain, throttle cable, and the tires are pretty worn and dry cracked. I have to decide if it's worth investing in all those parts. It probably makes more sense to keep my eyes open for something that is in better shape.

Thanks for all your help.
Well the sticker on the floor, passengers side looks to be a company ending in "co" so I'd be led to believe manco, or kartco, and the design of the steering column having the single support, I'd say probably not manco, I could be wrong, just my observations.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:48 AM
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Smerft85, I think you're seeing what's left of the previous owner's Sunoco sticker.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:52 AM
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I knew I recognized that font.
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:18 AM
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Yeah, looks like Sunoco.

I'm digging the rake of that roll cage.......
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Old 12-13-2019, 12:16 PM
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That is indeed the Pathwinder karl was mentioning earlier.
(yes W not F!!)

Not Kartco not Manco.. but T&D Metal

'sid

PS soo I found another two Pathwinders that indeed had the passenger side axle turned down and fitted with a freewheeling hub...
with karl's and yours that makes now five of them... I still can't see why that'd be a good idea really.. but at least it's highly unlikely some POs fault but indeed a factory disabled live axle.
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie P View Post
Smerft85, I think you're seeing what's left of the previous owner's Sunoco sticker.
Did say I could be wrong! Some aspects of it look like my kids manco, biggest reason aside for the decal why I gravitated that way.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:54 AM
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I've seen some axles like that.

It seems it was a convenient way to use one base frame model for both one wheel and two wheel drive karts without having to configure the frame differently.

Also means they could sell an "upgrade kit" consisting of a full diameter axle and a keyed hub if they wanted to.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anickode View Post
I've seen some axles like that.

It seems it was a convenient way to use one base frame model for both one wheel and two wheel drive karts without having to configure the frame differently.

Also means they could sell an "upgrade kit" consisting of a full diameter axle and a keyed hub if they wanted to.
but doesn't make any commercial sense..
since that way the one wheel peel is more expensive than the live axle
(additional bearings and additional work turning the axle down)
but usually has the cheaper selling price.

I assume most T&D karts shared components..
maybe they all used the spindles of the single seater klipper
or the like.
thus it had such craptacular steering geometry that the intended live axle just wouldn't want to go round corners.
And if all live axles are the same size amongst the various T&D karts as well..
mabe the "just order 1000 more"-approach had some monetary benefit *shrugs*

hard to tell.. but it'd still be cheaper to just power both wheels right from day one.
especially since the klipper had a true live axle for sure.
(so "just order 1000 more" would've held true for the passenger side hubs as well, no?)

Ah well...

'sid
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