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Old 12-05-2019, 09:15 AM
shawnh shawnh is offline
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Default Honda reduction

Hello guys I am new to the cart world, I recently purchased what I think is an old retired bumper kart. This part has a gx140 with wet clutch reduction, the clutch it bad and I am looking for any help I can on finding info on a new clutch or parts. I do not know if the reduction is a factory unit from Honda or an aftermarket one. It has a belt drive to the wheel.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

Shawn
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:17 AM
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What exactly is wrong with it?
Wet clutches usually are very, and I mean VERY durable. That would be an original Honda unit.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:25 AM
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the kart will not move at all, pick up on the rear of the kart and the tire turns as should will not hardly pull at all.

Shawn
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:29 AM
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Sounds like you need a new belt, but it could be a problem with the wet clutch as well.
Take off the belt cover and post some pics of what you find.
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:29 AM
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But is the clutch actually seized or is it just the axle?
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:38 AM
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the tire spins as it should with no weight in kart. the belt is a wide cog belt that looks to be functioning correctly. the next step is to tear down and take a look. i am sure it has had a hard life being a commercial cart. does anyone know a good place for parts?
Thanks for your help i appreciate it.

Shawn
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:28 AM
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the belt seems fine from what little I can see of it.

The clutch might be dry and worn by now (140s have not been around for decades)
So you might need new friction discs.

google: "honda wet clutch friction discs"
and pick any 5 disc set (two transfer and three friction discs)
that is labelled either GX120 or Gx160 (ideally both)

first, fill in new oil and give it a try..

depending on how long it's been sitting you might want to get a gasket and the chain as well
but in order to know for sure you need to pop open the clutch case.

be aware that all of your drivetrain is rather expensive
(wet clutch, the toothed pulleys and the belt)
but should be kept if possible

'sid

PS be aware that there are clone wet clutches around for different shaft types..
yours will likely be splined IIRC.. so don't just buy any wet clutch off ebay that looks alike for replacement,
you might be in for a bad surprise (it may not fit)

So first check what exact clutch you need (again disassemble the clutch and take a look)
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
What exactly is wrong with it?
Wet clutches usually are very, and I mean VERY durable. That would be an original Honda unit.
The wet clutch isn't a honda product, looks identical to the one I pulled off my concession kart, but yes they should last. I'd consider opening the clutch case, sometimes those will allow water inside causing rust on the chain and clutch plates, it is set up very similar to a motorcycle clutch. Mine has a bushing inside up against the engine that was damaged, causing it to be locked up tight. Something else I'd consider because it's a 2:1 reduction clutch you have, maybe going to a standard centrifugal clutch and chain may eliminate some of your headache.

I don't usually disagree with sid, but I doubt the shaft on your engine is threaded or splined, it's likely a standard 3/4" shaft, my gx 270 that came on the concession kart (from what I can see I think yours is a shaller kart, same as mine was) had a standard 1" keyed shaft, but I did end up shelving the wet clutch and using the engine on another build.
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smerft85 View Post
The wet clutch isn't a honda product....
Oh it is.. Honda GXes came factory equipped with those
(and several other types of reduction)
it has a Honda part number and a Honda label cast into the case (well the Honda ones have)
Click image for larger version

Name:	Honda_wet_clutch.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	151.5 KB
ID:	114012
but true, there are clones... or say "non Honda" ones
since IIRC Briggs had one too that's very much alike

'sid
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File Type: pdf gx120-gx160-gx200_dwg.pdf (1.33 MB, 1 views)
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
Oh it is.. Honda GXes came factory equipped with those
(and several other types of reduction)
it has a Honda part number and a Honda label cast into the case (well the Honda ones have)

but true, there are clones... or say "non Honda" ones
since IIRC Briggs had one too that's very much alike

'sid
I stand corrected, mine is not a honda product and other than mine requiring a 1" engine shaft, they appear to be identical which leads me to believe the shaft should be "standard", only one way to be sure...
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:55 AM
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talking of which.. wear limit on the friction discs is 3mm (0.12") (new 3.5mm [0.14"])
and warpage of the transfer discs has to be below 0.1mm (0.004")

unfortunately part numbers are not in the workshop manual (and I don't have the parts manual)

'sid
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:31 AM
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The (2:1 units) are bullet proof reduction units.

Here are the posts I made for someone regarding the installation and removal of the reduction box

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19687
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showpos...38&postcount=3
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showpos...39&postcount=4
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:17 PM
shawnh shawnh is offline
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Here are a few pics of my clutch after I took the cover off. Seems that there is a big gap between the last metal disk and the back of the basket.
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20191206_112144.jpg   20191206_112140.jpg  

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Old 12-06-2019, 08:20 PM
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Sure looks like one of the friction discs is missing.

get a new set and a fresh gasket..
chain looks to still be fine from here

'sid
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:40 AM
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i thought the same thing but there are three there one on the back of basket one between the two metals and the face friction with the pins in it. the basket has some damage where the metals have beat it up a bit. any idea on a good inexpensive place to purchase? all i have found are the very expensive honda disk or ordering direct from china which i hate doing.
Thanks guys for the help.
Shawn

---------- Post added at 08:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------

i can hold onto the pto shaft and give the engine gas the clutch engages but i can hold it back with my hand, i know not the smartest thing to do.
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:10 PM
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I don't like ordering from china either (it wold take it a month to get here). And I agree with sid, one of the plates looks like it's missing.
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Old 12-07-2019, 05:33 PM
shawnh shawnh is offline
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they are all there two metal disk and three friction. i agreed it does not look correct.
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Old 12-08-2019, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnh View Post
they are all there two metal disk and three friction. i agreed it does not look correct.
YES.. but since it looks like one is missing,
chances are they're worn out DRASTICALLY by now

one friction disc is 3.5mm thick originally,
and should be replaced @ 3mm
(can be delayed to nearly 2.7mm with drastical loss of performance though)
nooow.. 3*(3.5-2.7) makes 2.4mm almost a whole remaining disc width less ..
so chances are.. you need to have them replaced, no?

But there's but one way to know..
disassemble it already and get the calipers out to measure them.

You need to take it apart anywys to see what's wrong with it.
maybe the springs need to be replaced,
maybe the anchor plate is missing it's bolt (I wonder how)and thus creates a too large gap


'sid
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