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Old 04-26-2016, 05:02 PM
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Default 2016 - Chrome Rhino's "Rat Wagon" build entry!

So here be my first build entry. The family and I lovingly refer to this as the "Rat Wagon". A short back story: I have always wanted to build a RatRod (a po'man's hot rod) but never been able to justify the money spent since we aren't really rolling in the dough, so I bought myself a ratrod truck hotwheels car. My son had been playing with the cars but didn't put them all away and our daughter got ahold of them and was vrooming them around. .. especially the ratrod truck. After observing her for some time (ok, and playing with the cars too) it was obvious that the ratrod was her favorite. So I devised a plan, even though I couldn't have a ratrod, I could build her amini rat rod and live vicariously thru her and everyone is happy! Lol

Here were my plans and goals for the project when I started:

-mini ratrod themed self propelled vehicle
-must be safe for a 2-5yr old to play in and drive
-must be multi-purposed
-able to achieve walking speeds (~5mph top speed to start)
-keep the ratrod theme by keeping it cheap, repurposing parts and a solid level of "cool!"
-must be reliable
-must be able to easily be moved by adult in the case the child falls asleep, doesn't want to drive, runs outs fuel, etc.

So those were my goals and plans. I started the build late last year but then my work shed caught on fire with all my tools, parts, projects, fishing gear and valuables that I was goibg to trade/sell for project money. So, I hace scrimped and saved to get enough tools to start up a few projects again. The pictures here are what I have done so far.

I decided on a radio flier type metal wagon. I purchasedit for $5 at a garage sale late in the garage saling season last year.

I threw together a frame from 1"x1" steel tubing I got for free from a nice guy at a steel tubing manufacturing place. He did not want his name or company mentioned in the thank you/acknowledgements (wow, that's a big word. Seems like I spent 2 mins pecking that word out on my phone. Lol) list. Simple butt welds at the bottom of the frame and a couple angle welds on the riser rails. I notched the corners of the wagon front and back for a "channeled" look. Made a grill from an old box fanand 1500w electric heater that got caught in the fire. I used 2 of the corners of the fan for the shell of the grill and cut and bent the front safety bars from the heater for the grill bars. The tires are off from my son's go kart we bought for $50 last year. They are old 6 hole split rim jobs in the back and I'm guessing old lawn mower front tires up front.

I may or may not have more parts that I will use for this build because of the nature of the build itself. But as it stands I need all of the steering, driveline, seating, etc. Oh wait. I built a steering wheel out of a couple pieces of chain that came with my hammock and built a front drop axle that's not shown in the pics. I can get pics of those when I have a chance. I have to dig them out but don't forget about them when deciding on approval.

Ok, that's it for now. Will get pics up asap.
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2016, 05:19 PM
Poboy kartman Poboy kartman is offline
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Actually, I have something similar in mind....not for a build off...but for all the little grandchildren to putt around Grandma's back yard...( it's on the bucket list!)
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poboy kartman View Post
Actually, I have something similar in mind....not for a build off...but for all the little grandchildren to putt around Grandma's back yard...( it's on the bucket list!)
Cool. I'm planning on building a ratrod kart for my son also. A bigger version that will be more true to a ratrod and faster.

---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 PM ----------

Please forgive the mess... I only have a 12'x12' shed for all my projects, tools, motorcycle and yard stuff. Its a challange to work in and store stuff for sure.
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:09 PM
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Sounds like a plan. Welcome to the Competition!
I think this will be great! Good Luck

BTW. I thinks this is posted in the wrong place.
A moderator will let you know for sure.
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:13 PM
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don't want to be nitpicky..

but I cannot read the sign.. soooooooo
would you please take a pic of the partspile where I can?

Just so that I can move this thread and welcome you to the competition

'sid

PS to ease the pain, I'd say it'd suffice if you thread the sign into the grill and take a closeup
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
don't want to be nitpicky..

but I cannot read the sign.. soooooooo
would you please take a pic of the partspile where I can?

Just so that I can move this thread and welcome you to the competition

'sid

PS to ease the pain, I'd say it'd suffice if you thread the sign into the grill and take a closeup
Yeah.. I am currently about 600 miles from home but I can when I get back home. I have the sign with me to finish it up. I can take a pic of it up close so you can better understand the picture. I thought it would have came out better... guess not! Lol

I know it won't suffice but atleast it will give you an idea until I get back home.
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:47 PM
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I'd call that good enough, especially since it's legible in the other thread

So..

'sid
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
I'd call that good enough, especially since it's legible in the other thread

So..

'sid
Sweet, thanks

---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------

While I currently have no build pics I will try to paint a picture with words to give you an idea of what my current plan is... although its subject to change... a lot lol

I was thinking of sourcing a small dc motor from something for the drivetrain. I want to be abke to attach a handle to the front so I can still tug it like a wagon without fighting the motor though. An engine with a cf clutch would be perfect but I don't want my daughter near a hot engine, fumes and it would be noisy do electric motor it is.

I want to do a full suicide extended front suspension and have rear suspension also. I was thinking of using metal banding to make leaf springs out of. I might make some springs for the back, I'm not sure yet.

For the steering I want a true looking mechanical look like the old cars had. I was thinking of using old hand drills to control the steering arm. I will have to see what kind of turning ratio, via steering wheel lock to lock, they will provide.

I'm stuck on whether to do a front fairing or not. It might make it look dumb.

I'm going to make a trailer for it too but not sure the exact plans yet.

I am planning on putting lights on the front also.

I had an entire electric scooter I was going to use with tge batteries, motor and motor controller but the moor and stuff got burned in the fire. I kept it hopeibg I could rebuild it but my hopes aren't very high. I don't know if I have the controlker and stuff or not. I will have to look around.
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Old 04-26-2016, 08:29 PM
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Thank you Rhino for stepping up and entering this years build off most certainly with at least two entries, now this years build off will be a little more interesting with more than just one entry!
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:16 PM
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Yep! but
Sorry I could not resist!
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Old 04-26-2016, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertduler View Post
Thank you Rhino for stepping up and entering this years build off most certainly with at least two entries, now this years build off will be a little more interesting with more than just one entry!
Your welcome. I think it might spark some more entries. We will see.
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Old 04-26-2016, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
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Yep! but
Sorry I could not resist!
I was tinkering around this weekend with my son's help and might have some more pics that might be relevant. My wife bought a shelf and the guy threw in a free cordless 14.4v little Skil saw. Since I don't need it and wouldn't spend the money to get a battery for it, we ofcorse, tore it apart. I tested the motor and switch to see if they worked with a little 12v lawn battery. The motor and switch worked fine. I then tested to see if it was reversable in its current configuration. Yup. I might try to use this as the power source for the rat wagon. I was thinking I could gear it down to limit top speed with a little clutch sprocket for electric scooters and get a sprocket. #25 chain, wire in a couple relays or polarity reverser to a switch for reverse and design a soft start circuit. I am considering it.

I included a pic of the rat wagon mocked up with the 1975 5hp B&S flathead engine I took off from the snowblower I got this winter for $20 as a joke. I figured you could use it as a reference to judge the length of it. I figured I would make it as long as I thought I might want it and then I could trim it back if I wanted. Its always easier to remove sone than add some.
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Old 04-29-2016, 07:37 PM
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Ok... finally home now. So, thanks to Chancer I am going in a different direction. I now have a complete Razor Dune Buggy electronics setup on the way!

Thanks Chancer!

So... it sould be pretty easy and straight forward as far as the wiring is concerned. I'm going to try to adapt the thumb throttle to a foot pedal set up. I really don't want to mess with the twisting of the wires if I try to mount a thumb throttle on the steering wheel. So I will have that to deal with when the time comes.

Another fork in the road I am foreseeing is speed limitation and adjustment. I was thinking that I could gear it to 7 mph for future top speed limit but limit the speed down by building an adjustable bracket at the foot peddle to limit travel, which, if designed correctly, SHOULD limit speed via the way the thumb throttle works with the controller. I would probably have two adjustments, one at 2-3mph, ont at 5mph and then full travel would be governed by the max rpm and final drive gear ratio.

Am I missing something? Do you think this would be the best way to set it up? Any suggestions? I wonder if part throttle affects anything negatively? Seems like I heard that constant part throttle isn't good for electric motor systems for some reason.
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Old 04-29-2016, 08:06 PM
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I don't see why it would hurt a thing, electric motor's have the benefit of not having a power curve, but rather having 100% of their power available immediately.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

I went and looked on an RC forum I'm a member of, because I limit my RC's so younger kids can drive them and haven't had a problem, I found this,

The idea behind some companies recommending NOT to use EPA, some say, is that at partial throttle the MOSFETs are switching on and off thousands of times per second, but at full throttle the circuit is closed and they are not switching at all. So limiting throttle on your transmitter causes more heat in the ESC because it is actually working harder. With this in mind, I frequently use EPA to slow my cars down when I need to and I have never experienced more heat or any issues. I think if you are pushing the limits of the ESC and you do this you might have a different experience.
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Old 04-29-2016, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrgunn5150 View Post
I don't see why it would hurt a thing, electric motor's have the benefit of not having a power curve, but rather having 100% of their power available immediately.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

I went and looked on an RC forum I'm a member of, because I limit my RC's so younger kids can drive them and haven't had a problem, I found this,

The idea behind some companies recommending NOT to use EPA, some say, is that at partial throttle the MOSFETs are switching on and off thousands of times per second, but at full throttle the circuit is closed and they are not switching at all. So limiting throttle on your transmitter causes more heat in the ESC because it is actually working harder. With this in mind, I frequently use EPA to slow my cars down when I need to and I have never experienced more heat or any issues. I think if you are pushing the limits of the ESC and you do this you might have a different experience.
Great info. Thanks. That sounds about right from the feeling I got when I tried to remember what the situation was where it was unadvised to run part throttle on electric motor systems all the time. I get the sense it was tied to electric gokf carts or something else I had been researching years ago. Thanks again, J.R.

I will go ahead with the current design then and hopefully things will work out like tgey play out in my mind. Lol
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Old 04-29-2016, 09:32 PM
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I don't think it will be a problem. Because the thing has the original speed controller and thumb throttle.
Not to Dis us, but this was all figured by the "Genious's" at Razor R and D. I am sure they did not expect Kids to be at WFO all the time.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
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I don't think it will be a problem. Because the thing has the original speed controller and thumb throttle.
Not to Dis us, but this was all figured by the "Genious's" at Razor R and D. I am sure they did not expect Kids to be at WFO all the time.
That's probably true. I was just trying to think ahead and that part throttle thing popped in my head. I figured I would try to hash it out now rather than later. Spending time with the family and can't work on anything until after my wife gets out of work tomorrow and I put the mower deck on the tractor and mow the lawn. Then I have to leave Sunday. I really don't get any time for projects. Gunna be slow going. Might as well try to think things thru as much as possible so I spend less time troubleshooting and reworking stuff when I could be making forward progress.
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Old 04-30-2016, 12:52 AM
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That is cool.
We have till December!
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Old 04-30-2016, 01:06 AM
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Yeah... but at this rate I might as well add designs for treads so she can ride it in the snow, when I finally finish it! Lol

Hopefully I can get an hour or so to work on the projects in the next couple of days.

I'm trying to decide on a drive axle. I am going to use those bumb 6 hole split rim jobs but I don't kni w the best... well, cheapest, way to attach them to the axle. I was thinking weld a custom flat piece of stock on and drill 6 holes for bolts. Center everytging up, put the bolts thru and tack weld them to stay in place.

Any better ideas out there?
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Old 04-30-2016, 09:54 AM
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Any better ideas out there?
Craigs list.... For a different set of used wheels.

Or ask around here? USPS Shipping is cheap.
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