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Old 03-02-2013, 12:21 PM
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Default Turbo fuel injected clone project. Oh and traction control too :)

More to come I am gathering a parts list now and planning everything out. Should be good I hope.


I know I've made a few threads before about it. This is the last and official one from me. I have learned SO much since then about everything from my Subaru wrx I will try to comine my knowledge of forced induction engines and bring it down to a small engine scale


That being said it will have:
Fuel enjection that is ecu and CDI contrôlée with open and closed loop switching, traction control, launch control (if possible depending on ecu) etc

Turbo, will be the smallest made.

E85. I want to use pump gas so it will be on e85.

As for the engine I will use a harbor freight clone predator. Prolly the 212cc since it has the most parts for it. And I don't think the bigger motors will fit on a go kart chassis.


Now the 2 things I want but haven't looked into yet

Electric start, I want to be able to start it up with the push of a button

Some sort of small small small alternator and battery to keep the ecu and starter able to work anywhere




I am doing it in phases. Starting on a bench with a stock engine and low boost then I will build the motor once I blow it up and then if I can between run it on my friends race kart for testing. Then I will work on a charging system once I permanently attach it to a kart.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:34 PM
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This should be interesting

A few things:

-Launch and traction control will require a way to control brake operation. How will you go about doing that? Have you considered adding ABS?

-Are you building this CDI system yourself or are you buying some sort of a kit?

-Why use E85?

-What sort of hardware (i.e. microcontroller) do you plan on using?

-Hopefully you already know C?

Certainly sounds like a fun project! For the heck of it, I would considering implementing some sort of OBDI style diagnostic system.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:47 PM
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Sounds way cool!
Sometimes, traction control is accomplished through ignition (CDI). You'd need some sort of electronic method of monitoring wheel RPM and actual speed, right? Then a circuit to compare the two and adjust. Perhaps actual road speed could be monitored from the front wheel, because it (almost) always reflects road speed...
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toystory_4wd View Post
Sounds way cool!
Sometimes, traction control is accomplished through ignition (CDI). You'd need some sort of electronic method of monitoring wheel RPM and actual speed, right? Then a circuit to compare the two and adjust. Perhaps actual road speed could be monitored from the front wheel, because it (almost) always reflects road speed...
Traction control is usually achieved through throttle limiting and brake actuation. Throttle limiting would probably be good enough on a gokart. I think a system similar to governor operation would suffice.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:06 PM
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i would really like to see this happen. i would love to have EFI and turbo on my predator
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:09 PM
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this looks like a very interesting project. I also have the same questions as Devino. Have you considered a Micro-Squirt or Mega-Squirt ECU? They can be expensive, but they could also prevent a whole bunch of headaches.

As for the engine, I think that for a build like this it would be worth your while to get a genuine Honda GX series engine. You can also get the Honda engines with electric start, and various size charging systems. That said if you are planning for high engine speeds, you might want to find out if the built-in charging system can handle it. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if billet flywheels aren't setup for charging systems.

Good luck!
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:05 PM
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Traction control is built into the ecu I am looking at, it uses 2 hall sensors to detect front and rear wheel speed and cuts timing and/or fuel accordingly.

I looked at a micro squirt but it is not as plug n play as this setup. It's an ecotrons efi unit. And the same turbo from their site. It's re buildable and I will use a oil pump to circulate oil and possibly a water pump too.


Going to use e85 because it runs cooler, I can add more timing for better spool, and it's also a higher octane than 93. I want to stick to an automotive fuel out of a pump.



Also the ecu has diagnostic trouble codes and a light for it.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toystory_4wd View Post
Sometimes, traction control is accomplished through ignition (CDI). You'd need some sort of electronic method of monitoring wheel RPM and actual speed, right? Then a circuit to compare the two and adjust. Perhaps actual road speed could be monitored from the front wheel, because it (almost) always reflects road speed...
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Originally Posted by Jblankster View Post
Traction control is built into the ecu I am looking at, it uses 2 hall sensors to detect front and rear wheel speed and cuts timing and/or fuel accordingly.

Crap. Wish I'd thought of this sooner. Patent, anyone? LOL!
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:52 PM
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Not sure, haven't looked that far into it. As for the front sensor it will have a custom tabbed bracket to measure what it needs to measure.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:35 PM
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Grab a basic wide band air fuel ratio gauge.. Had one for the drag car that ran on a 9v battery and looked similar to a obd2 scanner... Put a o2 bung right outside the turbo on the exhaust and monitor that religiously. It will help you greatly In the long run...

My 42ar was to big for a 8.5 hp Honda gx motor and had that motor leaking at every gasket. And blew up in minutes.. Not hours.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblankster View Post
Traction control is built into the ecu I am looking at, it uses 2 hall sensors to detect front and rear wheel speed and cuts timing and/or fuel accordingly.

I looked at a micro squirt but it is not as plug n play as this setup. It's an ecotrons efi unit. And the same turbo from their site. It's re buildable and I will use a oil pump to circulate oil and possibly a water pump too.


Going to use e85 because it runs cooler, I can add more timing for better spool, and it's also a higher octane than 93. I want to stick to an automotive fuel out of a pump.



Also the ecu has diagnostic trouble codes and a light for it.
Well that's boring
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:57 AM
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IMO a fuel injected, turbo'd predator seems like a waste of time a resources. Remember, this is a low revving air cooled motor. the tolerances arent very tight, and you going to have to drop a few hundred on a billet flywheel/rod right off the batt. Then you need to have an oil pump, just for the turbo...and on top of all that, you might have 25hp at the end? Not to rain on your parade but i would at least do a bigger, brand name motor. maybe a briggs twin, or a liquid cooled quad motor.
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaptain Krunch View Post
IMO a fuel injected, turbo'd predator seems like a waste of time a resources. Remember, this is a low revving air cooled motor. the tolerances arent very tight, and you going to have to drop a few hundred on a billet flywheel/rod right off the batt. Then you need to have an oil pump, just for the turbo...and on top of all that, you might have 25hp at the end? Not to rain on your parade but i would at least do a bigger, brand name motor. maybe a briggs twin, or a liquid cooled quad motor.
Oil pump is 75 bucks no big deal. And I will end up with as much power as the turbo will allow me to make.

I would do a larger 10 or 15 horse version but its hard to find a rod and stuff for them. And idk if they will fit on a race kart chassis. If they do then I have no problem starting with a larger motor.





Quote:
Originally Posted by masteryota View Post
Or simply some hop up parts and changing to methanol fuel source would do about the same to a 7hp predator, and much simpler, runs cooler, and it has been done time and time again, meaning less guess work, but I like the injection idea either way.
Like I said I do not want to run a fuel source I can't get from the pump. And I want to do something different.



I'm doing the efi first to a stock motor then going from there it'll make more power and run better and more efficiently than a carbed motor right off the bat
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:24 PM
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Like this?
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:39 PM
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No videos of it on a kart it's a bench motor, same ecu and turbo he's using I want to use.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblankster View Post
I would do a larger 10 or 15 horse version but its hard to find a rod and stuff for them. And idk if they will fit on a race kart chassis. If they do then I have no problem starting with a larger motor.
In that case, Honda GX390 all the way! There are plenty of race karts running a GX390, and you should be able to get cams, rods, flywheels, etc. from places like NR racing, and ARC racing. 13hp at 3600rpm and 18.5ft/lbs at 2500rpm to start out with!
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:16 PM
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I started looking into bigger motors and am leaning toward that
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:29 AM
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Not to rain on your parade but don't bother with the turbo. The extra weight for all of it alone makes it not worth it. You'll notice minimal power increases compared to other mods.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:57 AM
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I guess it's true what they say...
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jblankster View Post
I started looking into bigger motors and am leaning toward that
Ahem, "There's no Replacement for Displacement".

Note that turbocharging, supercharging, and nitrous are all just ways of faking increased displacement.
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