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Old 02-04-2020, 08:56 PM
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Default Predator 212cc Camshaft, Power Gains?

I'm looking into buying a performance camshaft for my Predator 212cc engine... They have them on sale for 50 bucks at GPS...

I was wondering if anyone has used these cams on their Predators. And if so, was there a noticeable increase in torque? How about throttle response?

I already got some stronger valve springs, so I should be ready for it.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-05-2020, 06:52 AM
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Do you have a billet rod and flywheel for it? The heavier valve springs move the valve float rpm to above the rpm when the rods snap. The stock rods are good for about 6k, while the 18lb springs are good for 7k.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:51 AM
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I'll be buying a billet rod to go along with it. I don't see how the flywheel is necessary though.

Sure, it COULD explode. But it most likely won't.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomonster212 View Post
I'll be buying a billet rod to go along with it. I don't see how the flywheel is necessary though.

Sure, it COULD explode. But it most likely won't.
Just hope your flywheel was not made on a friday or monday, lol

Quality control on predators are not exactly the best.

After feeling the energy of a magnet letting go, I would hate to see what happens when the flywheel itself scatters.

Be safe.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:13 AM
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I'm also curious how does one select from all the different cams available.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:14 AM
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It’s all about the combination. You aren’t going to see big gains with a cam alone, it’s my opinion that a cam upgrade should be accompanied by port work, a better carburetor, and advanced ignition timing. It’s all about getting air in and out, and optimizing when it fires.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinhillbilly View Post
Itís all about the combination. You arenít going to see big gains with a cam alone, itís my opinion that a cam upgrade should be accompanied by port work, a better carburetor, and advanced ignition timing. Itís all about getting air in and out, and optimizing when it fires.
On this note, what about a big cam (or race cam) on a modified engine with the governor still in use. Maybe hitting 4000-4500 rpm max. I guess I've answered my own question, all depends on the grind. :-)
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:53 PM
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How would you advance ignition timing on a Predator? I didn't know it was possible on this glorified lawn mower engine... By the way, does anybody run 93 or higher in theirs? I would want to do that if advancing timing was possible.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:57 PM
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To advance timing, you can file a bit of material off the flywheel key to offest the flywheel a bit, or you can buy offset keys.
Or a fixed timing ARC billet flywheel has a few degrees of offset built in, and the adjustable ARC 'wheel is well, adjustable!

I run 92ish octane premium in my Briggs, lots of people run them in their Predators.
I just wish there was a station nearby that sold ethanol free recreation gas!
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
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To advance timing, you can file a bit of material off the flywheel key to offest the flywheel a bit, or you can buy offset keys.
Or a fixed timing ARC billet flywheel has a few degrees of offset built in, and the adjustable ARC 'wheel is well, adjustable!

I run 92ish octane premium in my Briggs, lots of people run them in their Predators.
I just wish there was a station nearby that sold ethanol free recreation gas!
Nice, thanks for the info!

There's a station not too far from me with ethanol free, but they only offer it in 87 form. I guess I could always add some octane booster to that!

Looks like the flywheels are $100 and up, so that can wait I spend too much on my car to have a broad karting budget. I built my kart month by month and build my car day by day! lol
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:44 PM
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It's just the ethanol you want to get rid of. I think VP actually makes "race" gas at 85 octane. I tried to find the article on it for these little engines but my google foo is off.

PVL makes a flywheel with 28* timing and it's $60.

I would get the cam and keep your eyes open for a carb or modify yours.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:46 PM
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I have PVL flywheels on three of my engines, I actually like them better because they have a steel hub and are less likely to slip.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:51 PM
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Vegas carts has an adjustable coil bracket. Cheap easy way to change timing with out ever removing the flywheel.

I modified one to fit my big block. It made as much gain on a stock engine as a carb, head porting and milling, and open exhaust did on another engine.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitetrashrocker View Post
Vegas carts has an adjustable coil bracket. Cheap easy way to change timing with out ever removing the flywheel.

I modified one to fit my big block. It made as much gain on a stock engine as a carb, head porting and milling, and open exhaust did on another engine.
Iím thinking I should maybe do a video on how to set the timing on these things.
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Old 02-06-2020, 02:07 PM
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The description for the PVL flywheel from GPS says it won't fit Predator engines, so that's not an option.

It looks like the only place to buy the one for a Hemi 212 is dynocams.com
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Old 02-06-2020, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomonster212 View Post
The description for the PVL flywheel from GPS says it won't fit Predator engines, so that's not an option.

It looks like the only place to buy the one for a Hemi 212 is dynocams.com
Nothing wrong with ordering from dyno cams, never had issue

Gopowersports arnt exactly up with the times lol

NR racing has it, and I would recommend them as well.

http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/dc-pvl-pred.htm

https://www.ombwarehouse.com/pvl-fly...-212-hemi.html

http://www.studzracing.com/product-p/dc-pvl-pred.htm

https://www.out2win.com/catalog/cloneparts_ign.html

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Old 02-06-2020, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitetrashrocker View Post
Vegas carts has an adjustable coil bracket. Cheap easy way to change timing with out ever removing the flywheel.

I modified one to fit my big block. It made as much gain on a stock engine as a carb, head porting and milling, and open exhaust did on another engine.
Here's some pics. Made for a small block. I made it fit a big block.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_20200206_181122902.jpg   IMG_20200206_181137616.jpg  

IMG_20200206_181130446.jpg  
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Old 02-06-2020, 06:30 PM
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On my dyno:
6.5 hp stock
7.5 - 8 hp stage 1
13.2+ hp camAnd slide carb no port work.

Huge gains with cam and carb with no port work. Iirc it was a mod 2 w/22mm China mikuni

With compression increase roller rockers and race gas you will be topping out at 17-18 hp.

On an inertia dyno, add 20-40% to these numbers.
Stock inertia dyno 8-10 hp
Stage 1 12-13 hp
Cam/carb 18-20 hp
Compression increase etc 22-25 hp
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KartFab View Post
On my dyno:
6.5 hp stock
7.5 - 8 hp stage 1
13.2+ hp camAnd slide carb no port work.

Huge gains with cam and carb with no port work. Iirc it was a mod 2 w/22mm China mikuni

With compression increase roller rockers and race gas you will be topping out at 17-18 hp.

On an inertia dyno, add 20-40% to these numbers.
Stock inertia dyno 8-10 hp
Stage 1 12-13 hp
Cam/carb 18-20 hp
Compression increase etc 22-25 hp
Now those are the numbers I'm looking for! Thanks for being so helpful!
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Old 04-01-2020, 01:55 PM
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Just to update this:

I ended up using the HOT265 cam. Obviously from the name, it has .265 lift on the intake and exhaust. I paired that with the billet rod, and some porting and polishing of the exhaust side. Also got a carburetor upgrade jet from GPS and a performance air filter. Deleted oil sensor, hammered governor gear off of crankshaft. Also went with a 8 degree timing advance key from ARC. Here's the part I left forgotten though. When I first got the engine I put in some 18lb valve springs. Apparently the 265 cam need 24lb springs. Oops.

Anyway, it's a badass engine now. Low end torque was raised greatly, and so was throttle response. I really really wish I could feel the top end power, but this actually lowered my valve float to about 6k rpm. So, I will need to buy and install the 24lb springs before I can unleash the full potential. And in the future a flywheel upgrade will be done too.

All in all, upgrading the cam along with everything else really helps and really is worth the money. Here's a video I took just messing around.

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