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Old 01-20-2020, 10:49 AM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
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Default Black Widows Torque Converter Issue

Hi guys, I finally got my ASW Black Widow kart fixed up and re-assembled. I purchased a new 30-series Torque Converter kit from Amazon (this one). Well, the Black Widow has an integrated jackshaft. That means I can't use the backplate that came with the kit. Because I can't use the backplate, I can't use the cover either. Is it OK to run a TC WITHOUT the backplate or cover? The other problem is that the "driven" pulley is for a 5/8 shaft. It doesn't fit on my jackshaft shaft! It fits over the threaded part but not the actual shaft. It's just BARELY too small. The manufacturer parts site says the shaft is 16mm, which is just a hair larger than 5/8! Actually, neither the pulley OR the sprocket will fit on the shaft. Below are pictures that will hopefully show what I'm talking about. So...what do I do? Does anyone make a 16mm driven pulley? What are your thoughts on just cutting the jackshaft off so I can use the backplate? Should I just use a dremel to grind them out a little....? I have NO clue.

Rear-End Without Engine


Rear-End With Engine



Jackshaft Shaft


Schematic

Here is the site if anyone is interested in that...

THANK YOU to anyone who can help me with this nonsense!!!
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:33 AM
txluke txluke is offline
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Can you cut off the old jackshaft and use the new one?
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:36 AM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
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I could, but is that a good idea? I was told that the jackshaft being built into frame like that is much better and sturdier.
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:25 PM
txluke txluke is offline
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I have had 3 karts with the 30 series. I have never had any problems with them. If the frame is rare or worth a lot of money, make the jackshaft work. If you just want to ride and have fun, cut it off.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:58 PM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
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I get it. I mean that's the easy answer. I'm just really confused as to why the jackshaft on my cart would be just a HAIR bigger than a standard pulley. It doesn't make any sense...

It's just a standard Black Widow kart I bought for $250. Nothing fancy, rare or valuable about it!
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:16 PM
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I assume that means you bought a true Comet torque converter unit. I do know the Chinese ones are about that 16 mm. I have a very similar Kart and will be encountering this issue tonight so I'll let you know if I find. Cuz I'm going to put an eBay torque converter on my American Sports work wasp
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:39 PM
karl karl is offline
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Its only 5 thou, Im sure if you had a buddy spin the wheels, and hit the jackshaft with a grinder and some sandpaper while spinning , you could make it work right.

Genuine or knock off, the bore of the driven unit should be 5/8

Ive used that method to convert a 20mm gx160 crankshaft to 3/4, and that is a bit more material to remove, fits tights, runs true.

Also, I cannot see any of the images
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:36 PM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
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Well, things got a lot more complicated. When riding yesterday my master link came off my chain and everything fell apart. I thought that was all that happened but I was very wrong. When I pulled everything apart tonight I discovered that the bearing on my jackshaft basically exploded and scraped the mess out of my jackshaft shaft. I was ready to call it quits with the whole jackshaft idea when I took a closer look at the axle sprocket. It sits basically FLUSH with the side of the engine. Basically if I put the backplate on there, the drive sprocket will absolutely NOT line up with the axle sprocket. As you can probably tell in the picture, I absolutely cannot adjust the sprocket to the left any to accomodate this. I really don't know what to do now...



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Old 01-20-2020, 10:07 PM
txluke txluke is offline
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I can't see the images.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txluke View Post
I can't see the images.
noone can, it's all tinypic shortlinks, not images..

ceasarvis, just upload the images here so we might be able to help
detailed description on how to post pics

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Old 01-21-2020, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txluke View Post
I can't see the images.
I thought it was just me!!!
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:33 AM
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Yes pictures. Keep the stock jackshaft, I just tried my eBay Chinese torque converter, and it was just a tiny bit too small. So I rebuilt the current driven unitI. The jackshaft bearings are 20 mm, and then the jackshaft is tapered down and threaded... accommodate 5/8" ish driven.
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:18 AM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
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Sorry guys! What about in the original post? Can yall see those???

And what 2SlickNick said is correct. It is a tapered or as they call it "stepped down" jackshaft with 5/8 threads but it thickens up less than 1mm RIGHT after the threads. It's crazy.
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IMG_20200120_184043 (Large).jpg   IMG_20200120_184039 (Large).jpg  

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Old 01-21-2020, 09:42 AM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
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These are the most important picture from my original post, I think.

I bought a new shaft ($20) and some jackshaft bearings last night because of the blow-out I had on Sunday. I guess the thing that makes the most sense for me is to try to remove some material from the smaller part of the shaft to get a standard pulley to fit on it. I just need to figure out how the heck to best do it.

@2SlickNick - What are you going to do? Just always stick with the stock one? It seems absolutely NUTS that nobody makes one that will fit on the stock shaft!
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IMG_20191014_091440.jpg   Jackshaft.jpg  

Parts.JPG  
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:07 AM
karl karl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caesarvis View Post
I guess the thing that makes the most sense for me is to try to remove some material from the smaller part of the shaft to get a standard pulley to fit on it.
Ya know, kinda like I mentioned above?

Spin it with drill, wheels, ect get some sandpaper, less than 1 beer and your done. You only need to remove .005 from the shaft total like I mentioned above , but noone listens to karl
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:31 AM
caesarvis caesarvis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karl View Post
Ya know, kinda like I mentioned above?

Spin it with drill, wheels, ect get some sandpaper, less than 1 beer and your done. You only need to remove .005 from the shaft total like I mentioned above , but noone listens to karl
That is a great idea Karl! I just didn't know if there were any other ideas. It will just be hard to judge how much material to remove. Also, I know some metals are surface hardened and removing any material is a bad idea. Not sure if that applies to the jackshaft or not.
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Old 01-23-2020, 09:54 AM
karl karl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caesarvis View Post
That is a great idea Karl! I just didn't know if there were any other ideas. It will just be hard to judge how much material to remove. Also, I know some metals are surface hardened and removing any material is a bad idea. Not sure if that applies to the jackshaft or not.
I keep a pair of dial calipers on hand, check often, points along the shaft to make sure its even and keep the clutch on hand to keep test fitting until its just right.

If the shaft is hardened on the surface, It may need a lick with a grinder, but I doubt it. The key runs the whole length of the driven , and the clutch is thick so it supports the shaft as well.

The keyway itself should be fine, I removed over .040 from the 20mm shaft, and the 3/4 clutch slid on , key and keyway unmodified.

I have used regular cold rolled shaft with 30 series driven no prob, its the norm for jackshafts.
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