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Old 11-22-2019, 04:52 PM
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Default Possible springer front spindle issue

So I replaced my front wheels and tires a while back and while the front end was in the air I noticed that one side of my springer setup isn't really doing much with that big gap at the top of the spindle.

Does this have anything to do with why the left tire comes off the ground when I turn right when sitting still? The right tire stays on the ground when I turn the wheels to the left

What do I need to do to fix what is wrong?

Is that gap supposed to be there or not?

What made this happen? So I make sure to not do it again after I fix it
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Old 11-22-2019, 06:39 PM
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That gap is not supposed to be there.
I think that is the cause of your left wheel coming up but I don't know what you did to make it happen.

Looks like one spring is worn out, would be my guess. Are your spindles freely moving up and down and side to side?

---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------

Check the spring to see if it is broken. Or it could be clapped out.
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Old 11-22-2019, 07:48 PM
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It was that way when i bought it, idk how it happened either. Yes they both move freely, I greased them with the zerts on the spindle.

The springs are both the same length when uncompressed. I did some measuring while it was in the air. I can't find any replacement compression springs like these, even on the internet.

The manual says it should be a 164x33 compression spring
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Old 11-22-2019, 10:00 PM
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Chances are the Kingpin seized one point in time and PO heated it up
to free it.. and with the kingpin he heated and softened the spring as well.

if you want, you can try to harden and temper it again..
but getting it perfect will be close to impossible..
getting it okay will be within reach though.

(this old tony had a video on yt about making springs from scratch where he also showed how to "properly" heat treat them IIRC)

you can however try to shim the weak spring to see if that is any better (I doubt it'll be)
or replace both sides with something like a set of hefty valve springs for example

it's 164x32 btw
and that's why you couldn't find this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/164X32-Murr...-/362368028829

(get two .. better to swap both and keep the "good one" as a backup in your toolbox)

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Old 11-23-2019, 04:29 AM
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Thanks Sid! I'll see what shimming it will do before I order those springs.

It didn't feel like the kingpin was siezed at any point but idk what this kart went through before I got it

I dont think the spring is weak, its still just as stiff and the same length as the one that is working. I didn't know the manuals measurement was slightly off, that would explain a lot
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson_Engine_Shop View Post
...
It didn't feel like the kingpin was siezed at any point but idk what this kart went through before I got it...
yeah you said it's how you got it..
so I figured Previous Owner might have affected it's strength.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson_Engine_Shop View Post
I dont think the spring is weak, its still just as stiff and the same length as the one that is working.
well we can safely assume if it has the same dimensions and stiffness,
it wouldn't open up such gap
unless you have someone sneakingly put a big Rock on the front beam
Since dimensions likely didn't have changed
the stiffness is the only other option.

Well apart from PO having it replaced with a lesser grade spring some
point in time..
check wire gauge and number of turns.

keep in mind that shimming will affect travel of course,
not that you have much of travel to begin with anyways.. but
ah you'll see if it works out for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson_Engine_Shop View Post
I didn't know the manuals measurement was slightly off, that would explain a lot
I've taken the number from the manual...

oh wait.. ohhhhh waaaaaaiiiiiiit a second
that is ...
Ahaaa..
you are right, 164x33 is the front spring,
and 164x32 is the compression spring on the throttle!
I looked at the wrong spring in the manual...

Makes me wonder... would you mind getting the compression spring off the throttle control rod
and put it next to the spindle springs

might be someone just swapped the two if they're indeed similar in dimensions.
and the throttle spring is just a lesser grade (different wire gauge)

'sid

PS indeed nowhere to be found that spring..
BMI has a spring specifically made for spindle brackets though
https://www.bmikarts.com/Spring-for-...et_p_5074.html
maybe that could serve as a viable replacement...
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:04 AM
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Hmmm, now you have me curious. I'll take the throttle spring off and take some pictures of it next to the front springs.

I looked at those springs from BMI and I think they might work(since they are the only replacement I can find). They're a half inch or so longer than my current ones but they might work better, you never know til ya try I guess. Pretty cheap too
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Old 11-23-2019, 03:05 PM
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Here is the side by side of the throttle spring and the spindle spring.

My current spindle springs are 1-5/8" long

The throttle spring is 2-3/8" long and much skinnier

The new spindle springs from BMI are 2" long. Would these make my front suspension work better?
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Screenshot_20191123-110114.jpg  
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:14 PM
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I see
yeah I think that 164x32/33 had me confused..
I was hoping that similar part numbers would also mean similar parts
(in this case spring dimension) which obviously isn't the case..

an additional 3/8" of length might be tricky to get mounted if the spring's really firm.
I can't tell if it'd serve you well tbh how yould I.. neither have I a kart like yours nor springs like BMI sells..
I would assume that two identical springs meant for rudimentary suspensions alike
will work better than two springs with different stiffness,
even if they are a bit too tall;
but I really cannot say if they will work well or just okay for that matter.


If you can tell us ALL about the original springs,
maybe we can find you an even better replacement.

what wire-gauge is it? what's the internal diameter,
what's the outside diameter the exact length, lead-in,
number of turns fully compressed height etc.

with that we have nearly all what defines a spring (all but the spring rate)
and one could look up similarly sized springs on industrial spring mfg
like lee
https://www.leespring.com/compression-springs
to find what might be a viable replacement.

Personally, I'd get the "good one" to a hardware store..
and compare it with what they have in stock
and get the closest to that (as a pair) if the price justifies them being tested on the kart.
(or at least find one wich is as hard to compress and check it's rating to narrow down the online search further)

But I cannot make the decision for you I'm afraid..
since the original part is no longer available,
everything else is just a suggestion..

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Old 11-23-2019, 11:33 PM
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I'm not sure how to measure the wire gauge, the lead in or the spring rate.

I took a good spring to all the stores around me a day or so ago with no luck. Not a single place had a compression spring that was close.

Im going to measure the inside of each spindle to see how much more compressed the good spindle is compared to the one with the gap. That might tell me whether to open up one side to gap it for the new taller springs or clamp the other side down enough to get rid of the gap and keep the current springs.

Thanks for the knowledge Sid!
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:26 AM
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if you have a caliper, just measure the wire diameter (no need to convert that to AWG)
that'll give us all we need really

lead in and number of turns we can almost tell from the pics exactly
(looks like one turn of lead in maybe just shy of a full turn)
and eight turns in total

inside diameter, outside diameter and exact length are easy to measure right?
but everything is explained in the link above
like spring rate calculation:
Name:  300x300_LoadReference_Compression.jpg
Views: 15
Size:  41.6 KB
(F as load in lbs, L as length in inches and R in lbs/in)

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Old 11-24-2019, 10:21 AM
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Okay Sid. I got some spring measurements here.

The I.D. is 0.555"

The O.D. is 0.795"

Overall length is 1.625"

Wire diameter is 0.120"
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:14 PM
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I was putting the spindle back together earlier today and saw that when the front end was in the air there was no gap anywhere. When it was back on the ground the weight of the front end itself compresses one spring almost halfway. It seems like the springs may indeed be worn out after all.

I'm going to be ordering springs for both karts now, i'll post an update after I decide where to get them from, then get them installed. I always try to include pictures because they are worth a thousand words each.
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