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Old 02-22-2020, 06:46 PM
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Default New Tillotson billet head

Well guys,it looks like Tillotson is raising the bar again.
Theyíre coming out with a new billet head real soon. 36/27.5 valves, looks to be a top notch unit. Iím already on the list to be one of the first to get one.
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Old 02-22-2020, 07:02 PM
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There's no quench area.
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Old 02-22-2020, 07:33 PM
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and this is going to cost how much? that intake valve is huge!
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Old 02-22-2020, 07:57 PM
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Wonder how long until 4 valve heads will be a thing for better flow? It's probably like $300 for that head.
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Old 02-22-2020, 08:12 PM
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SO SHINY!!!
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Old 02-22-2020, 08:58 PM
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They have 4 valve heads, typically they're for big block clones.
Billet and really expensive..
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Old 02-22-2020, 09:10 PM
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well it looks as beautiful as the tilli block..

if it performs half as good as it looks, it's well worth getting one I'd say

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Old 02-22-2020, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karts of Kaos View Post
and this is going to cost how much? that intake valve is huge!
Theyíll cost right around $1000 with no carb or intake. Itís a clean slate design with some real improvements over any clone head out there.

---------- Post added at 10:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

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and this is going to cost how much? that intake valve is huge!
36mm intake valve right out of the box. Iím floored and canít wait to get my hands on one.
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Old 02-22-2020, 10:22 PM
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Wow that is some impressive number given that the block
is relatively cheap compared to the effort they put into that.

tbh I expected a quarter of that
maybe another 150 more with valves, springs, retainers and rockers
one k is impressive (to avoid using 'shocking' )

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Old 02-23-2020, 07:25 AM
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why not just buy a 670? they're like 800$ 20hp. and like 800$ for performance parts for a grand total of 1600$. so for 1600 your making like 50ish hp. how many hp with that head?
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Old 02-23-2020, 07:57 AM
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you totally miss the point!

for 800 bucks you can have a used 750cc bike engine with 130+hp,
six gears, 14k rpm from a bike with a road top speed of 260+ km/h (160++mph)
ten to twenty times as reliable as the race prepped industrial small block.

that's not about how many hp per dollar,
it's how much can be squeezed out of that tiny industrial engine throwing enough money at it.

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Old 02-23-2020, 09:20 AM
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Karts of kaos, you might not know this, but Flyinhillbilly races real race karts on a dirt oval track. He's not just bashing around his yard on a way overpowered yard kart!

And yeah, bike engines are way better in terms of power/displacement, and cost, plus they have gears.
But race karts like the kind FHB race typically use very hopped up industrial-type small blocks.
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
you totally miss the point!

for 800 bucks you can have a used 750cc bike engine with 130+hp,
six gears, 14k rpm from a bike with a road top speed of 260+ km/h (160++mph)
ten to twenty times as reliable as the race prepped industrial small block.

that's not about how many hp per dollar,
it's how much can be squeezed out of that tiny industrial engine throwing enough money at it.

'sid
One of the reasons that we try so hard to squeeze power out of these tiny industrial engines is because we go around corners. A small block clone weighs a whole lot less than a 670, or a motorcycle engine. Itís all about weight distribution on these.
And yes, they get real expensive once you get past the normal rod, flywheel, cam, carb, and header ďstageĒ stuff. Iíd like to know what ďstageĒ Iím at now.

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
Wow that is some impressive number given that the block
is relatively cheap compared to the effort they put into that.

tbh I expected a quarter of that
maybe another 150 more with valves, springs, retainers and rockers
one k is impressive (to avoid using 'shocking' )

'sid
The block is still a cast unit thatís made in China. This part is carved out of a solid block of aluminum, itís a lot of money, but I completely understand where itís worth it if your looking for the maximum with these engines.

---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------

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Karts of kaos, you might not know this, but Flyinhillbilly races real race karts on a dirt oval track. He's not just bashing around his yard on a way overpowered yard kart!

And yeah, bike engines are way better in terms of power/displacement, and cost, plus they have gears.
But race karts like the kind FHB race typically use very hopped up industrial-type small blocks.
Exactly. I race in unlimited modified, so you can use any engine you want, literally. If you want to bolt a v8 on and try to drive it, then have at it. 99.9% are running small blocks because of the weight and handling benefits though.
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Old 02-23-2020, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinhillbilly View Post
Itís a clean slate design with some real improvements over any clone head out there.
It it only intended for nitro?

The combustion chamber seems very unconventional

Honda designed the cylinder head carefully, to provide even and complete combustion, and resist knocking

But I just run high compression, pump gas motors, your probably much less concerned about that stuff.

Thanks for sharing, cant wait to see in action!
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Old 02-23-2020, 11:07 AM
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Honda also designed them to run at 3600 rpm. I haven’t seen one of these in person yet, but being Tillotson I have great faith that it’s the best of the best and will have plenty of compression. Im thinking the chamber had to be made bigger on account of the relocated intake valve.
These are for open motors, and most guys run methanol in open. I’m a minority with the nitro, especially at the percentage that I run. Most guys don’t know how to tune for it. I’m lucky enough to have a friend that used to race top fuel dragsters that educated me on it.
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Old 02-23-2020, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyinhillbilly View Post
One of the reasons that we try so hard to squeeze power out of these tiny industrial engines is because we go around corners. A small block clone weighs a whole lot less than a 670, or a motorcycle engine. Itís all about weight distribution on these.
Oh come on, it's NOT just weight,
otherwise you'd jst get a 2stroke
Like a Max 125cc evo senior, 26lbs, 30hp @ 12000 rpms
or an AixRo XR50 (same weight as the stock gx200 but 44hhp and 11k rpms
and both are actually way cheaper than what Mammoth for example put in his gx390 so far

I think it's perfectly legit to throw money at a stupid engine design to see what can be done with it.
especially when it comes to racing these (one must obey the rules of course)

But you must admit the "rules" for these engines came from the simple fact that they were cheaper than proper kart engines
and to allow for "less money spend" classes it was adapted and became popular since they were literaally everywhere anyways.
And then the "oh but i can throw more money in" guys came along and THIS is now the result.

But that doesn't make it a particularly good engine design for anything but reliabilty (if untampered with)
it just happen to be the "standard go to" because of el-cheapo kart racing

'sid

PS those horizontal cylinder 140cc Hondas for example are not just as popular with modding yet.. but pumped to 190cc they still have 10k rpm ~20hp an overhead cam five sequential gears and the same weight as a stock GX240 and cost next to nothing as a clone too
if one puts a modded head and custom cam, forged flat top piston etc to one of those.. I wonder what would happen
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
Oh come on, it's NOT just weight,
otherwise you'd jst get a 2stroke
Like a Max 125cc evo senior, 26lbs, 30hp @ 12000 rpms
or an AixRo XR50 (same weight as the stock gx200 but 44hhp and 11k rpms
and both are actually way cheaper than what Mammoth for example put in his gx390 so far

I think it's perfectly legit to throw money at a stupid engine design to see what can be done with it.
especially when it comes to racing these (one must obey the rules of course)

But you must admit the "rules" for these engines came from the simple fact that they were cheaper than proper kart engines
and to allow for "less money spend" classes it was adapted and became popular since they were literaally everywhere anyways.
And then the "oh but i can throw more money in" guys came along and THIS is now the result.

But that doesn't make it a particularly good engine design for anything but reliabilty (if untampered with)
it just happen to be the "standard go to" because of el-cheapo kart racing

'sid

PS those horizontal cylinder 140cc Hondas for example are not just as popular with modding yet.. but pumped to 190cc they still have 10k rpm ~20hp an overhead cam five sequential gears and the same weight as a stock GX240 and cost next to nothing as a clone too
if one puts a modded head and custom cam, forged flat top piston etc to one of those.. I wonder what would happen
I’ve actually thought about the two strokes before, the reason that I stay with these is because I have a good understanding of them. There nothing that I can’t do to one myself as well as anyone with the exception of machine work, and I can hire that out for not a lot of money. There’s also really good aftermarket support for these engines, so it’s what I use.
Other than some UAS racers, I haven’t seen anyone running two strokes on dirt in person, and those have a cc limit and weight penalty.
And you are absolutely right with the way we all try to outspend each other, I run a four kart team on a fraction of the budget of most racers, so I have to do a lot of it myself, I can’t just call up whoever the hot builder is this month and order an engine. A lot of guys do exactly that. That’s why I run a high percentage of nitro, it levels the playing field as long as they don’t figure it out. It’s a well known fact at the track that I do it, but a lot of fuys have blown up engines trying to get where I’m at with it. I couldn’t have done it without the help that my friend so graciously provided.
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:15 PM
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Four stroke singles bite better on dirt, so that's at least one reason to use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartorbust View Post
Wonder how long until 4 valve heads will be a thing for better flow?
50....maybe 60 years ago...

Quote:
Originally Posted by karl View Post
The combustion chamber seems very unconventional
The chamber looks very similar to a low-compression Ford Cleveland design from the early '70s.
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 65ShelbyClone View Post
Four stroke singles bite better on dirt, so that's at least one reason to use them.



50....maybe 60 years ago...



The chamber looks very similar to a low-compression Ford Cleveland design from the early '70s.
Iím interested to see the depth of the chamber.with an open chamber design, the valves are unshrouded and tend to flow better than in a closed chamber design. I guess the chamber could always be welded into whatever shape you wanted, but my experience with Tillotson is that they do their R&D, so itís probably about as good as it can be right out of the box. Iím planning on building an extended deck 3 inch bore stroker motor for next year, and this head would be the icing on the cake.
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65ShelbyClone View Post
Four stroke singles bite better on dirt, so that's at least one reason to use them.



50....maybe 60 years ago...



The chamber looks very similar to a low-compression Ford Cleveland design from the early '70s.
Not exactly what I meant. I never looked, but I haven't seen a 4 valve industrial engine head. 4 valves generally flow more air than a 2 valve.
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