Go Back   DIY Go Kart Forum > Building Plans And Advice > Go Kart Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-06-2019, 04:14 PM
BigWes's Avatar
BigWes BigWes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Alabama
Posts: 515
Thanks: 41
Thanked 180 Times in 140 Posts
Default How about a video from me? I know! Governor bypass!!!

And here is your governor bypass video boys!

I hope you like it



Don't forget the





__________________
This ain't rocket science boys!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BigWes For This Useful Post:
andrecht (07-06-2019), Dingocat (07-06-2019), Hellion (07-06-2019)
  #2  
Old 07-06-2019, 04:23 PM
Budget GoKart's Avatar
Budget GoKart Budget GoKart is offline
Aka a kenbar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: indiana
Posts: 904
Thanks: 14
Thanked 88 Times in 82 Posts
Default

Thats why you hold it with a spring hooked to something holding it from doing that
__________________
Certified Yerfdog 3202-3203 expert.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-06-2019, 04:43 PM
BigWes's Avatar
BigWes BigWes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Alabama
Posts: 515
Thanks: 41
Thanked 180 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget GoKart View Post
Thats why you hold it with a spring hooked to something holding it from doing that
And you think that spring is going to keep the little plastic gear in there from coming apart at uncontrolled RPMS that it wasn't meant to take?

Have you ever thought part of the reason it may have been made out of plastic was as a built in design-to-fail part?

As that plastic gear turns faster and faster the centrifugal force causes those two flyweights to become heavier and heavier. Soon their weight will overcome the ability of the plastic's ability to hold them on. When they sling off and into all the other high speed reciprocating parts inside the crankcase...game over...

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I am just showing a simple video of a fact.

In your case it's just a matter of time.
__________________
This ain't rocket science boys!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BigWes For This Useful Post:
Hellion (07-06-2019), JTSpeedDemon (07-06-2019)
  #4  
Old 07-06-2019, 05:28 PM
950speed's Avatar
950speed 950speed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 330
Thanks: 70
Thanked 37 Times in 35 Posts
Default

But if the arm held back the weights, would there still be enough mass to cause the plastic to fail alone? Have we had anyone do this and test it yet? Not that I know of, if anyone has a plastic govoner gear laying around and a way to spin it up to high rpm with it outside of the engine such as using a dremel? (10,000rpm) we could see what the gear alone can take.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-06-2019, 05:44 PM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,206
Thanks: 559
Thanked 294 Times in 267 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 950speed View Post
But if the arm held back the weights, would there still be enough mass to cause the plastic to fail alone? Have we had anyone do this and test it yet? Not that I know of, if anyone has a plastic govoner gear laying around and a way to spin it up to high rpm with it outside of the engine such as using a dremel? (10,000rpm) we could see what the gear alone can take.
Mmph, I'll pass.
I really don't feel like slinging flyweight around a 10,000 RPM and them ending up in may face possibly. Oooooowwwwwwwww.
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-06-2019, 06:05 PM
65ShelbyClone's Avatar
65ShelbyClone 65ShelbyClone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SoCal
Posts: 451
Thanks: 42
Thanked 177 Times in 147 Posts
Default

I'm all for gathering data, but why test the governor gear with no weights? I can't think of a reason to use the gear without them and it's more work than just removing the whole thing.
__________________
I'll show those guys who's in top place, I'll really give 'em a hotrod race.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-06-2019, 06:11 PM
950speed's Avatar
950speed 950speed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 330
Thanks: 70
Thanked 37 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Ok so I may get a little confusing here but I will do my best!!

Test the gear alone and gather data because:
If you hold the arm down, while the engine is going, and have the arm disconnected from the carb and held by a strong spring, then it would prevent the weights from moving.
Therefore there would not be any stress on the gear from the weights.



Hopefully you followed
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-06-2019, 07:02 PM
Kentucky Boy's Avatar
Kentucky Boy Kentucky Boy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 579
Thanks: 187
Thanked 182 Times in 142 Posts
Default

Here’s what happens if you rig the governor instead of removing it and installing a billet rod.
Attached Thumbnails
FC0ADE1E-CF88-4144-9F31-ED95F08222BB.jpeg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kentucky Boy For This Useful Post:
andrecht (07-06-2019), JTSpeedDemon (07-06-2019)
  #9  
Old 07-06-2019, 07:17 PM
BigWes's Avatar
BigWes BigWes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Alabama
Posts: 515
Thanks: 41
Thanked 180 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 950speed View Post
Ok so I may get a little confusing here but I will do my best!!

Test the gear alone and gather data because:
If you hold the arm down, while the engine is going, and have the arm disconnected from the carb and held by a strong spring, then it would prevent the weights from moving.
Therefore there would not be any stress on the gear from the weights.



Hopefully you followed
No, you are wrong. The weights are still attached to the gears. The weights still have mass. The weights are still attached to the gears via the plastic that the gear is made up of. The weights are still generating leverage even though they aren't allowed to moved. This in turn allows a dangerous build up of torque and stress. The problem is we have a piece of plastic with metal parts slinging all over the place. It's going to fail. It's obviously happened before or it wouldn't be a thing. It takes just a few minutes to remove it and you can do it in conjunction with your first oil change and use the opportunity to clean the crud out of your crankcase.

It's cheap insurance and peace of mind.

---------- Post added at 08:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky Boy View Post
Heres what happens if you rig the governor instead of removing it and installing a billet rod.
Ouch...game over...


A picture is worth a new engine in this case....

But you know what, you still can't tell these kids anything...buy em books, send em to school, make videos, show pics, I guess we just kick back and watchem scatter rods up and down the block in front of the elementary school!!! Lol

Oh well what can you do!
__________________
This ain't rocket science boys!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BigWes For This Useful Post:
JTSpeedDemon (07-07-2019)
  #10  
Old 07-06-2019, 07:35 PM
950speed's Avatar
950speed 950speed is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 330
Thanks: 70
Thanked 37 Times in 35 Posts
Default

I understand, yet the weight is much more centralized so it would not be near as much force as when they were loose.

I suppose the only way to test this and get numbers is spin some up that have been taken out of an engine and see how they preformed:


With the weights loose
With weights held in place
And without the weights, just to see how the plastic is





I would do this myself gladly but I threw mine away and I only had 1 to use
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-06-2019, 08:29 PM
BigWes's Avatar
BigWes BigWes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Alabama
Posts: 515
Thanks: 41
Thanked 180 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 950speed View Post
I understand, yet the weight is much more centralized so it would not be near as much force as when they were loose.

I suppose the only way to test this and get numbers is spin some up that have been taken out of an engine and see how they preformed:


With the weights loose
With weights held in place
And without the weights, just to see how the plastic is





I would do this myself gladly but I threw mine away and I only had 1 to use
Are you trying to justify half@$$ing a job? That's what it sounds like. If I can get the one shown in the video out without damaging it I will let you have it. No promises. I'm not going to waste much time being gentle with something I would normally can. Then you can have all the fun you want with it. I doubt you will be able to truly simulate the conditions that exists inside that engine block under a high rpm load though.
__________________
This ain't rocket science boys!!!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-07-2019, 05:13 AM
itsid's Avatar
itsid itsid is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ruhrpott [Germany]
Posts: 10,105
Thanks: 1,384
Thanked 4,261 Times in 3,200 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWes View Post
A
As that plastic gear turns faster and faster the centrifugal force causes those two flyweights to become heavier and heavier. Soon their weight will overcome the ability of the plastic's ability to hold them on.
uh nope!
the weights certainly do NOT become heavier, they can't..
do not mix up force and mass.

the force increases (newtons as kg*m/s) but that's thanks to increased acceleration (m/s) , not because the weights get heavier (kg)

the flyweights themselves are not held back by the lever btw!
the lever is the "button" the expanding flywheels push
that tells the carb to close
and with a slowing down engine the springs in the governor contract the flyweights back again.
the spring on the lever is strong enough to help a bit maybe
but it's meant to bring the lever back to the now contracted push pin
on the governor shaft.
(to be pushed back again next time the weights expand and push the pin out)

there are many reasons the governor wheel can fail.
Most common (to us) are indeed excessive centrifugal forces.
Usually due to some jerk (literally [m/s])
if it was a de or accelerating one can be seen on the governor remnants.
if the leading pin hole of a weight failed first it was an accelerating jerk,
if the trailing pin hole failed first it was a decellerating jerk.
(the pin hole that failed second is slightly stretched, the first one just snapped clean to pieces)

Anyways it's indeed always the pivot of the flyweights (the axle pin)
that fails first since that's where almost all forces act on.
once one weight broke free the imbalance and
new weakspot in the plastic gear
tear apart the governor wheel.

BUT even if the pivoting pin cannot break loose, the governor wheel can still fail
a slight imbalance can cause it to oval out at high speeds so it won't mesh properly with it's driving gear;
chewing off teeth causing a vibration that rattles everything apart
or causing the driving gear to perfectly hit on the tip of a tooth
causing an imperfection to crack open.. or or or.

The problem is:
we cannot prevent every situation that might or might not cause the governor gear to fail at higher speeds.

and it's quicker and safer to just remove that dang thing.

'sid
__________________
Jokes about german sausage are the wurst.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to itsid For This Useful Post:
JTSpeedDemon (07-07-2019), Nosandwich (07-07-2019)
  #13  
Old 07-07-2019, 07:04 AM
BigWes's Avatar
BigWes BigWes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Alabama
Posts: 515
Thanks: 41
Thanked 180 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Yea, the weight analogy was just that...I know it's weight won't change unless it gets put on say a larger planet like Jupiter...then it wouldn't matter. I was hot and tired from working in the yard in the 100 degree heat. You should try it sometime.
__________________
This ain't rocket science boys!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-07-2019, 07:27 AM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,206
Thanks: 559
Thanked 294 Times in 267 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWes View Post
I was hot and tired from working in the yard in the 100 degree heat. You should try it sometime.
We should form the Triple Digit Temperatures Club.
It's SO hot here in Texas!
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-07-2019, 08:13 AM
BigWes's Avatar
BigWes BigWes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Alabama
Posts: 515
Thanks: 41
Thanked 180 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
We should form the Triple Digit Temperatures Club.
It's SO hot here in Texas!
I'm ready for some cooler temps already. This heat sucks.
__________________
This ain't rocket science boys!!!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-07-2019, 08:46 AM
Budget GoKart's Avatar
Budget GoKart Budget GoKart is offline
Aka a kenbar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: indiana
Posts: 904
Thanks: 14
Thanked 88 Times in 82 Posts
Default

Indiana has been in the 90's and i cant wait for fall i swear also its been humid as heck i cant work on anything without swimming in sweat
__________________
Certified Yerfdog 3202-3203 expert.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-07-2019, 08:58 AM
JTSpeedDemon's Avatar
JTSpeedDemon JTSpeedDemon is offline
Currently flathead-crazed
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,206
Thanks: 559
Thanked 294 Times in 267 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWes View Post
I'm ready for some cooler temps already. This heat sucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget GoKart View Post
Indiana has been in the 90's and i cant wait for fall i swear also its been humid as heck i cant work on anything without swimming in sweat
On the plus side, I don't even need to use choke to fire up my engine because it's already "warmed up"!

Good to know I'm not the only one suffering.
__________________
Local Bird Engineering Nut
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-07-2019, 11:30 AM
Budget GoKart's Avatar
Budget GoKart Budget GoKart is offline
Aka a kenbar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: indiana
Posts: 904
Thanks: 14
Thanked 88 Times in 82 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
On the plus side, I don't even need to use choke to fire up my engine because it's already "warmed up"!

Good to know I'm not the only one suffering.
My 212 starts up without choke its so hot and need to charge the battery for my mower been outside workin for an hour and already drenched in sweat
__________________
Certified Yerfdog 3202-3203 expert.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Budget GoKart For This Useful Post:
Nosandwich (07-07-2019)
  #19  
Old 07-07-2019, 06:18 PM
itsid's Avatar
itsid itsid is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ruhrpott [Germany]
Posts: 10,105
Thanks: 1,384
Thanked 4,261 Times in 3,200 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWes View Post
Yea, the weight analogy was just that...I know it's weight won't change unless it gets put on say a larger planet like Jupiter...then it wouldn't matter. I was hot and tired from working in the yard in the 100 degree heat. You should try it sometime.
we don't get 100 degrees around here... mostly because we use Celsius not Frankensteins
and 100C means water starts boiling... fairly uncommon air temp outside an oven let's say

but I get the dehydration and exhaustion part...
we had some serious temperatures a few days ago as well (38-40 C peaking at 43C [109 F])..
terrible tbh; luckily it cooled down again.
(barely scratching 30C yesterday )

But you won't find me working in the yard anytime soon..
I'm not an earth mover myself, at max you find me giving it
"the hose again"

'sid
__________________
Jokes about german sausage are the wurst.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-07-2019, 09:01 PM
BigWes's Avatar
BigWes BigWes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Alabama
Posts: 515
Thanks: 41
Thanked 180 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
we don't get 100 degrees around here... mostly because we use Celsius not Frankensteins
and 100C means water starts boiling... fairly uncommon air temp outside an oven let's say

but I get the dehydration and exhaustion part...
we had some serious temperatures a few days ago as well (38-40 C peaking at 43C [109 F])..
terrible tbh; luckily it cooled down again.
(barely scratching 30C yesterday )

But you won't find me working in the yard anytime soon..
I'm not an earth mover myself, at max you find me giving it
"the hose again"

'sid
I understand the metric system quite well. I even use it when I have to. I just hate using it. I hate any conversions so I just try learning the different systems I need to know. Like maritime units when I'm on the boat and aeronautical units when I am in the air. It's been a long time since I've been in the cockpit though. I miss it.

When did it start getting that hot in Germany? ...sheez...that's unheard of...I guess it's geographical based...I always thought the weather was mild there. I know some Germans, and my grandfather-great grandfather on my father's side was from Germany from what I was told. They were long passed long ago.

If I don't keep the grass and shrubs and flower beds under control I'll have compounded the work to do, not only that it just looks bad.

Storms came in today and the temps dropped into the low 80s. It was nice out for a few minutes. Took the boat out for a little bit and ran the salt water out of it.

As far as my video up there it was nothing serious. more of a simple video just demoing loose parts flopping around inside the crankcase.

I wasn't attempting a physics lecture or anything. If that had been the case I would have had source materials and such to back up what I was saying to my class. Because most of the guys here are a bunch of critics and it's much needed. And I don't blame them for that.

That engine is an odd case. I wasn't going to tear into it to begin with but I turned it sideways to dump the oil out and because the governor arm was disconnected with the carb linkage and the carb off I guess the internals came loose. Anyway, as I was pouring the oil out of the oil fill hole the plastic bushing that pushes the lever arm came right out with the oil. So really it's a good thing I drained the oil like I did and I seen that thing. Because if I had reassembled everything not knowing it was laying there in the bottom of the crankcase I'm sure bad things would have happened when I cranked it back up.

I originally pulled the head off to inspect it for damage because when I got that engine there was water in the oil, the tank, the exhaust and intake. When I spun it up with the drill it blew water out. So I didn't know what to expect. It actually looks to be in fair shape. I am going to finish pulling it apart and go over it really well. I will probably buy a set of stones and hone the cylinder lightly before it goes back together. I may even rering it and put a nice rod and other stuff in it.

I haven't decided yet. It's a 208cc non-hemi clone engine. So is it worth a build? I don't know. I guess it couldn't hurt to tinker with it. If i mess it up it's not like I have any major money in the parent block.

So you tell me.
__________________
This ain't rocket science boys!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:58 AM.