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  #41  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:09 AM
Bmr4Karts Bmr4Karts is offline
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Well that was easier than expected. Less than one minute of knocking the back bar and it came apart.

So I just got to the front wheels. They had a lot of grease on them and on the axles and now I know why. So the wheels don't appear to have bearings but they do have zerk fittings. Also, the wheels are larger than 5/8", closer to 3/4". Very odd. So I measured spindle shafts and only get 0.612", not 0.625" so I'm wondering if they are worn down. If so I'll just buy some new ones since they are pretty bent as well. If that's close to normal size I'll bend them back and well in some triangle supports. On to the next odd thing.
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:20 AM
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Got it broken down. Now I need to clean it and figure out what all is bent or broken. Like I posted earlier, the spindles are bent and potentially have worn down shafts. The pedal are bent but can be straightened. Question about those, is the shoulder bolt near the bottom supposed to be threaded into the pedals? I guess so since both pedals appear stock. As for the streeing shaft, the tierod mount is bent and what I think is the streeing stop is also bent, not sure what shape it's supposed to be.
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:37 AM
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pedals pivot hole are NOT threaded and shouldn't be..
likely PO installed all threaded bolts for lack of the correct ones.
and the threading just ate away some material..

care and heat help alot not workhardening all that you need to straighten up
which is about everything I see in your pics
If your spindles are not these:
https://www.gopowersports.com/manco-spindle/
you might want to consider bending them back as well and
when in doubt just reweld a new spindle shaft (it's esentially nothing but a grade 8 bolt anyways)


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  #44  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:37 AM
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All my manco pedals have been threaded, only ones that weren't were the am express ones, which were a different style pedal, with a bolt welded to them. The brake pedal was smashed into a Z, heated and bent it back and had to weld where it cracked when it bent.
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  #45  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
pedals pivot hole are NOT threaded and shouldn't be..
likely PO installed all threaded bolts for lack of the correct ones.
and the threading just ate away some material..

care and heat help alot not workhardening all that you need to straighten up
which is about everything I see in your pics
If your spindles are not these:
https://www.gopowersports.com/manco-spindle/
you might want to consider bending them back as well and
when in doubt just reweld a new spindle shaft (it's esentially nothing but a grade 8 bolt anyways)


'sid
The pedal bolts appear to be correct. They are shoulder bolts that pass through the chassis then thread into the pedals followed by a nut.
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  #46  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:53 AM
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Check the illustations from this previous DIY Karts posting, these are pretty standard pedal setups. I'm not sure if these apply to all Manco karts though.

http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16442
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  #47  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:33 PM
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Okay, took a break and looked at the extending rods. They are solid and I believe they are brass so that's a no go on welding with those. Time to find some steel pipe to use instead.

Also, turns out the full length of the rods CAN fit into the frame. No clue what the history of the cart is but this repair was never finished OR they just rode it as it was with a loose rear end.
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  #48  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmr4Karts View Post
Okay, took a break and looked at the extending rods. They are solid and I believe they are brass so that's a no go on welding with those. Time to find some steel pipe to use instead.

Also, turns out the full length of the rods CAN fit into the frame. No clue what the history of the cart is but this repair was never finished OR they just rode it as it was with a loose rear end.
Sheesh, that makes boogerwelds look like the proper way to do it.
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  #49  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
Sheesh, that makes boogerwelds look like the proper way to do it.
Yeah, pretty crazy. But I guess the rear end is always pushing so the odds of it coming apart were low. So I measure the pipe and its around ~.72" and is a loose friction fit. The ID of the frame appears to be very close to .75" so I'm going to go for some 3/4" OD steel pipe or rod.
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  #50  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bmr4Karts View Post
Yeah, pretty crazy. But I guess the rear end is always pushing so the odds of it coming apart were low. So I measure the pipe and its around ~.72" and is a loose friction fit. The ID of the frame appears to be very close to .75" so I'm going to go for some 3/4" OD steel pipe or rod.
Until you brake hard.
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  #51  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTSpeedDemon View Post
Until you brake hard.
Lol, very true. So I sat the parts together to see what I can make out and this kart was definitely cut on purpose. I was thinking that maybe it had bent or broke, but nope. The cut the frame and the welds that connected the seat back to the rear end. Positive side of that is it will be easier for me to fix.

Also, so I measured the wheelbase. I went from the top of the spindle mount to the rear Axle bearing mount and see just over 44". Overall length is 62" (with no roll cage/brush bars). This is why I wanted a small Dingo, short WB.
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  #52  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:04 PM
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So while I'm still removing old paint and preparing to weld it back up I'd like to order some wheels and tires. I don't want the massive means I have right now. I'd like some that are mostly for street duty and and some grass. I don't want a straight slick since I still need to climb up a few dirt/grass slopes on the side of my house. I also don't want them to be as big, especially in the back. Something closer to the Amex size would be fine.
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  #53  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
pedals pivot hole are NOT threaded and shouldn't be..
I got two sets of Manco pedals on-hand that are threaded and not Bubba'ed (i.e., threaded by the PO).

I swear, itsid must think he's the most knowledgeable man in the world about these go karts and to make blanket statements like that...

Our mighty mighty "expert".
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  #54  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
Our mighty mighty "expert".
Lol. Sid made a mistake, aka the talking of the frame itself.

---------- Post added at 12:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

My am ex has 11 inch tires on the rear and 4.10/3.50x4's in the front. Since Bmr was asking. Front wheels are rusty and back wheels are missing pieces. But useable.
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  #55  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
I got two sets of Manco pedals on-hand that are threaded and not Bubba'ed (i.e., threaded by the PO).

I swear, itsid must think he's the most knowledgeable man in the world about these go karts and to make blanket statements like that...

Our mighty mighty "expert".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingocat View Post
Lol. Sid made a mistake, aka the talking of the frame itself.

---------- Post added at 12:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 AM ----------

My am ex has 11 inch tires on the rear and 4.10/3.50x4's in the front. Since Bmr was asking. Front wheels are rusty and back wheels are missing pieces. But useable.
Everyone is allowed to make some mistakes from time to time. Itsid is more knowledgeable than everyone here, so he is allowed one or two mistakes
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  #56  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
I swear, itsid must think he's the most knowledgeable man in the world about these go karts and to make blanket statements like that...

Our mighty mighty "expert".
Well in fact the opposite is true..
I most often think I do not know enough..
so I try to trace down as much info I can find and read like a mad man

Which gives me an advantage;
No, not knowledge... EFFORT!

I was wrong with the pedals.. true.. apologies!
(misread bolt direction in the manual)
Happens... sue me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingocat View Post
Lol. Sid made a mistake, aka the talking of the frame itself.
you mean that ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsid View Post
Wheelbase according to an old advert...
AmEx WB: 45" Overall Length: 60.5" (225 as well as 325 [AmEx II])
Dingo WB: 46" Overall Length: 68" (285 as well as 388)
as I said according to an old advert (well, sales brochure)

here's where I got the info from...
Click image for larger version

Name:	Dingo_wheelbase_c.jpg
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ID:	107535
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Name:	amex_wheelbase_c.jpg
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ID:	107536
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Name:	amexII_wheelbase_c.jpg
Views:	6
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ID:	107537

The rest of my statements stay though..
(225)Amex chassis =/= (285)Dingo chassis.

and -as you can see- according to the above ad not in WB either
but even IF they share the wheelbase the frames are still different.

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  #57  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:41 AM
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I'm telling, we need a database with real life measurements.

A shared google drive spreadsheet would work well for storage and a thread dedicated to people adding measurements would be where the data comes from.

---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------

I can't see the front bumper on AmEx one, but it probably is there. That means the difference from I and II is the engine?
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  #58  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:05 AM
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nono 225 has a front bumper it's just washed out
thanks to the prestine image quality of a 1990s phone book print.

there's another Manco in the add (a 200) where all the frame is 'invisible'
you can only see the floor decal wheels and seat
(and make out parts of the frame contrasting against those)

here's where the manual's exploded views come in handy.. they clearly show the bumper

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  #59  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:29 PM
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Ever since I realized I was going to have to weld this chassis I've been making a list of all the repairs and improvements I would do that required fab work.

The latest on my list was only added earlier today and I've already done all the prework.

I was watching the gopower video about their vintage xl kart kit and saw that they moved the steering wheel above the hoop. I took my steering off and held it where theirs is and it provides a lot more room. So I used my jigsaw to free the top collar from the hoop and a cutoff wheel to weaken the bottom collar without completely removing it. Just enough to bend it to its new location.

Once I install the new 20amp breaker (already ran 12-2 wire to the existing outdoor outlet location and replaced it with a 20 gfci outdoor outlet) I can get to welding hopefully this weekend.

The next mod I'm think about is shifting the middle half of the chassis back, the area where the seat mounts. Seems simple enough to cut the few existing weld and the make new ones.
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  #60  
Old 05-26-2019, 03:19 PM
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It's officially back in one piece after a few hours of welding. Also got the steering weld shaft holder mounted above the hoop.

Somethings I learned and experienced today.
  • Welding is a lot of fun.
  • Welding is easy if you simply want the parts to hold together.
  • Making welds look good is difficult.
  • Wear boots, my toes go toasty a few times when slag made it through my tennis shoes.
  • The most exhausting part was not wearing the leather sleeves, apron, gloves or helmet. It was beating the two halves back together with the 3/4" solid rod acting as dowels.

Tomorrow's project is to move the pedals up one inch and forward 2-3 inches using some 1" squaring tubing that will be mounted above the existing pedal/bumper mount.
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