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  #41  
Old 06-09-2012, 02:01 PM
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Good good
I an guessing that is an M6? Maybe try an m7 or even m8, try boiling in lemon juice to clean the carb nicely too.
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  #42  
Old 06-10-2012, 04:45 AM
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Thanks again for all the advice guys, I appreciate it. I would have thought that the bore would look smooth once you were finished with it. I didn't think you would actually see the scratch marks.

So I took the flywheel off yesterday. I am definately learning the sequence of engine teardown....and the way I have gone about it is totally wrong. What you got to do is take the flywheel off before you take the side cover and the head off. If you don't, there is nothing to hold the flywheel still while you try take the nut off.
Live & learn buddy
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  #43  
Old 06-11-2012, 12:43 AM
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I did quite a bit this weekend. I have totally stripped the engine and have everything in pieces now. I am probably going to have to get new rings, cos the ones on this piston looked like they are jammed tight into the grooves, and they can't even move. Trying to loosen one of the rings up, I broke it.
What do you all think of this piston? Can I use a whire wheel on the sides of it to clean up the varnish/dirt?

I tried to clean up all the parts with a wire wheel, and I painted the flywheel cover as well as the recoil. I also pressure washed the block and tried to clean it up as much as I could.

The valves were also in bad shape. The exhaust valve was encrusted will all sorts, and it took me a while to clean them up. You can see what the look like now. Please excuse the extremely oily hands. The latex gloves I was wearing tore, and I though....stuff it

I also tried my hand at making a side cover gasket, and if I must say so...it came out pretty well!!

I also went all around town trying to find out if I could salvage my carb. I need a bolt for the bowl, a mixing screw, the main jet as well as a gasket for the bowl. All this is going to cost me approximately $30. This is waaaay to much for me to spend. For you Americans, multiply that by 8.5, and you in the UK by 14. That tells you how much it will cost me. I think I might take R_chez up on his offer and buy one of his GX160 carbs. Will it work on my engine, and will I need to mod anything to get it to fit?

I also tried to hone the bore using Fabromans advice, but I was just getting nowhere. I think I am just a bit impatient. I can by a hone for about $17, so I might do that and hone it properly. I can also buy some lapping compound for $7.5, so I will probably do that too.

So what I still got to do (I think) is:
  • Lap valves
  • Hone bore
  • Get rings and install (you guys are going to have to help me out with the install)
  • Fix carb
  • Put all back together

I think that is everything. If you guys have any advice, please let me know.

I have actually been pleasantly surprised that this process hasn't been as hard as I thought it might be. Live and learn like Fabroman says
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  #44  
Old 06-11-2012, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by landuse View Post
I am probably going to have to get new rings, cos the ones on this piston looked like they are jammed tight into the grooves, and they can't even move. Trying to loosen one of the rings up, I broke it.
What do you all think of this piston? Can I use a whire wheel on the sides of it to clean up the varnish/dirt?
Bugger! Once you get the rings out, soak the piston in petrol/gasoline for an hour or two; this will soften all the crud in the ring grooves. Then scrape out said crud using a razor knife/box cutter.

You can safely wire wheel the piston lightly

Quote:
Originally Posted by landuse View Post
The valves were also in bad shape. The exhaust valve was encrusted will all sorts, and it took me a while to clean them up. You can see what the look like now. Please excuse the extremely oily hands. The latex gloves I was wearing tore, and I though....stuff it
If your hands aren't filthy then you're not working hard enough

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Originally Posted by landuse View Post
I also tried my hand at making a side cover gasket, and if I must say so...it came out pretty well!!
That looks pretty good!

Quote:
Originally Posted by landuse View Post
I also tried to hone the bore using Fabromans advice, but I was just getting nowhere. I think I am just a bit impatient. I can by a hone for about $17, so I might do that and hone it properly. I can also buy some lapping compound for $7.5, so I will probably do that too.
What grade paper were you using? Were you rubbing wet or dry?

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Originally Posted by landuse View Post
I have actually been pleasantly surprised that this process hasn't been as hard as I thought it might be. Live and learn like Fabroman says
Are you now wondering why you've been putting it off for so long?

Keep up the good work buddy, you're doing great.

Oh, heads up; You're still doing the easy part
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  #45  
Old 06-11-2012, 03:51 AM
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Heads up in the valves- put them in a drill and attack them with emery until they shine
I used 180 grit on the engine bore. $17 for a hone? That's cheap! Pics?
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  #46  
Old 06-11-2012, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Fabroman View Post
Bugger! Once you get the rings out, soak the piston in petrol/gasoline for an hour or two; this will soften all the crud in the ring grooves. Then scrape out said crud using a razor knife/box cutter.

You can safely wire wheel the piston lightly

What grade paper were you using? Were you rubbing wet or dry?

Oh, heads up; You're still doing the easy part
Thanks Fabroman. I used 360 grit, and I used it wet. I know you said 320, but I couldn't find any at the store I went to. I was also worried that I was rounding the lip a bit by accident

Thanks for the tip about the piston

What exactly is the hard part? Putting it back together??

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_chez_08 View Post
Heads up in the valves- put them in a drill and attack them with emery until they shine
I used 180 grit on the engine bore. $17 for a hone? That's cheap! Pics?
Thanks for the tip on valves. I would never have thought of putting the valves themselves in the drill. I will see if I ca get some pics of the hone. It didn't look like any that I had seen before
  #47  
Old 06-11-2012, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by landuse View Post
Thanks Fabroman. I used 360 grit, and I used it wet. I know you said 320, but I couldn't find any at the store I went to. I was also worried that I was rounding the lip a bit by accident

Thanks for the tip about the piston
You could probably go a bit coarser than that. If you're referring to the lip at the top of the bore, don't worry, just go for it, it won't make any difference

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What exactly is the hard part? Putting it back together??
Ummm, yeah
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  #48  
Old 06-11-2012, 04:14 AM
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Looking good! Nice job on the gasket, too!

Call me overcautious, but I strongly suggest the use of a thread-locking compound upon reassembly. I use blue Loctite #242. With the bolts torqued to spec things should be okay, but I like to keep the bases covered.
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  #49  
Old 06-11-2012, 05:24 AM
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Hey landuse,
Here are the pics of the carbs I promised.
I have cleaned them all up so you are more likely to buy them
They are all pretty much new.
The throttle bore is approx. .7" or around 18mm
The overall length of the carb is about 52mm.

You can see that one carb has no fuel switch, one has a fuel switch and one has a switch and a second bowl called a strainer cup or sediment cup.

IMO the honda machining and casting is better quality- you get what you pay for.
If you want them give me a shout!

Edit: looking at the mounting holes compared to yours they look to be positioned slightly differently, meaning the carb would be angled. However, I cannot see this being a problem, after all racers use 15* engine mounts, and also we are using these engines on karts and bikes, riding up hills and having the kart angled.

Anyone want carbs???
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  #50  
Old 06-11-2012, 05:40 AM
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Hey landuse,
Here are the pics of the carbs I promised.
I have cleaned them all up so you are more likely to buy them
They are all pretty much new.
The throttle bore is approx. .7" or around 18mm
The overall length of the carb is about 52mm.

You can see that one carb has no fuel switch, one has a fuel switch and one has a switch and a second bowl called a strainer cup or sediment cup.

IMO the honda machining and casting is better quality- you get what you pay for.
If you want them give me a shout!

Edit: looking at the mounting holes compared to yours they look to be positioned slightly differently, meaning the carb would be angled. However, I cannot see this being a problem, after all racers use 15* engine mounts, and also we are using these engines on karts and bikes, riding up hills and having the kart angled.

Anyone want carbs???
Thanks rchez. I am going to compare these pics with my carb and I will let you know tomorrow.

Thanks again. You are turning out to be the carb guy!
  #51  
Old 06-11-2012, 06:43 AM
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Heads up in the valves- put them in a drill and attack them with emery until they shine
I used 180 grit on the engine bore. $17 for a hone? That's cheap! Pics?
Here are some pics of the one I have seen at $17
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  #52  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:35 AM
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they are different. The one on the left looks like a cheap hone that you describe (saw one for 18 on ebay)
This is OK for de glazing the bore but it will follow the contours/ curves in the cylinder wall so it must not be used for fixing an out of round/ tapered bore.

the one on the right looks like a quality fixed hone $100+ like a sunnen hone which are suitable for de glazing and making sure the bore is round and not tapered/ banana'erd etc.

there are also flex/ ball hones, which are simple to use and quite cheap in the US. They are only for de glazing though.

Self adjusting hone (for de glazing)

Ball hone for deglazing

Fixed hone best for restoring cylinder.
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  #53  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:35 AM
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Here are some pics of the one I have seen at $17
That's one of two types &, IMO, the better one of the two; one size really does fit all. They're really easy to use as long as you stay within the stroke lol

What does $17 translate to in $US
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:16 AM
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Fabroman, I had already converted to US dollars. So it is 17 US dollars. We use the rand here in South Africa.

R_chez, I took some pics and measurements of my existing carb so that you can get an idea of what I am working with. I also realised that I have a GZ160 carb on my GX140 for my go kart, so I took it off and tried it on my MZ175. It slips onto the engine nicely, and the bolts are long enough to hold it on. I was just wondering if it would be necessary for me to get the piece in the one pic that I have circled?

I just want to make 100% sure that I will be able to use a GX/clone carb. R_chez, you can see that the carb does sit at an angle, and that the strainer cup and tap might get in the way of the recoil cover because of it sitting skew. For this reason I think I might just have to go with the first one you offered me. I think it will fit a lot better (I hope).
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  #55  
Old 06-12-2012, 07:16 AM
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I think the GX carb should be fine, what does everyone esle think?
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:34 AM
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I think the GX carb should be fine, what does everyone esle think?
Yup, what does everyone think? The carb is going to be at an angle, and I would just like to know if that would make much difference. Would I also need a carb insulator (like the pic below, like the circled piece in the other pic), to get this running. If you look at the black plastic piece that came off my carb, there are no grooves, etc as air passages. It is a solid 'spacer', if you want to call it that. You can see it in the pic next to my carb
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  #57  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:58 AM
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Fabroman, I had already converted to US dollars. So it is 17 US dollars. We use the rand here in South Africa.
That's a bargain! Make sure you get the adjustable one, not the fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by landuse View Post
R_chez, I took some pics and measurements of my existing carb so that you can get an idea of what I am working with. I also realised that I have a GZ160 carb on my GX140 for my go kart, so I took it off and tried it on my MZ175. It slips onto the engine nicely, and the bolts are long enough to hold it on. I was just wondering if it would be necessary for me to get the piece in the one pic that I have circled?
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I think the GX carb should be fine, what does everyone esle think?
If a GZ169 carb fits a GX140 & the MZ175 I don't think r_chez's carb will be a problem. Just use the one with the bigger throat on the bigger engine, otherwise you may end up starving it: "the better an engine can breathe, the better it will perform".

If you're worried about the carb sitting on an angle (which I don't think will be a problem) then just mount the engine on an angle to compensate; a few degrees won't effect the engine

Edit: I just saw what you mean about the angle, like the carb would be twisted. worse case you could elongate the holes with a round file to reduce the effect, but don't go too far or you'll weaken the mounting points
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  #58  
Old 06-12-2012, 12:08 PM
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Landuse bought the carb.
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Yup, what does everyone think? The carb is going to be at an angle, and I would just like to know if that would make much difference. Would I also need a carb insulator (like the pic below, like the circled piece in the other pic), to get this running. If you look at the black plastic piece that came off my carb, there are no grooves, etc as air passages. It is a solid 'spacer', if you want to call it that. You can see it in the pic next to my carb
The cheapest way to do it is cut air passageways in your insulator.

I will see if I have any gaskets to throw in for you.
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  #59  
Old 06-12-2012, 02:38 PM
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Oh I am so kind...
Found you 2 perfectly good gaskets in my workshop (hope I don't need them now!)
You need 3, one is missing. Pretty sure I already used it, but you can use your master gasket skills to cut yourself a new one.

The carby is all nicely packaged up, awaiting a stamp and an address to the great country of S.A. I gave you a load of packing chips. Everybody loves packing chips!
I started with a box approx. 50cm square full of the things. I dunno where most of them have gone.
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  #60  
Old 06-12-2012, 11:50 PM
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Thanks so much r_chez. I will PM you my address
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