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Old 01-09-2020, 10:13 PM
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Default 1" Solid Live Axle Strength?

How strong are the solid 1" diameter live axles commonly used on off-road karts? I ask because after I'm done with the Manco Dingo project I'm working on I plan on doing a ground up Odyssey FL250-inspired kart using a solid live axle. Suspension wise I'm planning to do a single or double a-arm front with a rear swing arm (like a quad) and overall weight would probably be - if I had to guess - about 500-600(?) pounds without a driver. The thing is, I want it to be able to handle "sizable" jumps and other off-road abuse without bending it. From what I've seen online these axles seem pretty strong and able to handle a lot, especially with big fat tires and suspension absorbing a lot of the impact. My fear is landing on an angle and bending the axle. What are your experiences? Should I use a different axle?
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:40 AM
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I've seen RedBeardsGarage add additional axle bearings on a 1" live axle to keep it from bending. He went from just two bearings on the axle to five bearings. He had to fab up three more mounting places on the ends of the axle plus one more bearing mount in the center of the axle
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Old 01-10-2020, 12:18 PM
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keep the bearings as close to the wheel hubs as possible and you should be fine.
no need for "more" bearings..
a third one close to the sprocket is maybe all I'd add really

and 1" solid isn't the best you can do..
self respecting race karts use 50mm hollow instead
(way stronger, still lighter)

Anyways
individual rear suspension (with u jointed drive shafts) is the most reliable you can get really

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Old 01-10-2020, 01:50 PM
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They make 50mm hollow axles?? Holy cow thats almost twice the size of my 1" axle. How is a hollow axle stronger? I'm curious
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:52 PM
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Thanks itsid. But are those hollow axles actually stronger? I would've assumed that even with the increased diameter that they would be way weaker. I know IRS is for all intents and purposes "better", but it's also harder to set up for someone with minimal experience and likely more expensive. Maybe in the future.

EDIT: Upon doing a little research it seems a hollow axle is only stronger than a solid axle if both axles use the same *amount of material*, meaning the hollow axle would need to have a larger diameter to be equally strong. For a constant diameter (let's say 1" solid vs 1" hollow), solid is still stronger, although obviously heavier.
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Old 01-10-2020, 04:05 PM
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This is my solution to a solid axle with semi-independent suspension. Setting it up to be more like trophy kart suspension. The heim joints will be inline with the sprocket on the torque converter and upgrading to a stronger chain that can take the little bit of twisting it will have.
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:25 PM
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Oh that's simple physics..
the stress is spread over the surface, more surface (bigger OD) less stress per surface unit.
(hence 50mm diameter is about twice as strong as 1" diameter)
Since again: it's the surface the stress builds upon,
the inner filling doesn't help the tiniest bit.
sure you need a thickness to prevent the sidewall from collapsing,
but any more sidewall (up to a full massive rod then) is just dead weight
(hence tube is lighter than rod even with increased OD)

Same reason why for all chassis tubes a larger diameter tube is better than a thicker wall tube to stiffen everything up
(same reason you buy tube instead of pipe.. same or better stiffness and much less weight)

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Old 01-11-2020, 10:12 AM
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Default Shorter means stronger, more stops flex.....

Regardless of which axle you use, the basic physics of shorter distance = less leverage remains. As sid said, hubs close to the bearings will give you strength. The closer you can keep them, the less chance of ever bending the part of the axle between the hubs and the bearings.
The build I'm doing uses a 1" solid steel Deluxe Flexpruf live axle, and will only have the width of a locking collar between the outboard bearings and the hubs. I am adding more bearings though, but not for worry of what'll happen when falling out of the sky. The prospect of maybe 15hp pulling on the middle of a 44" axle got me worried about flex.
That 3rd bearing sid mentioned? Well, the best bearing deals on ebay are in groups of 4, 6, 8, etc., so I ended up with 4 instead of 3, and will go ahead and use them all because they're there. The inboards will sister up beside the sprocket and beside the brake disc, no flexing during go or whoa.
One off-topic thought: For that off-road abuse you want to do, consider building in a really rigid guard (bash plate) under the lowest part of that rear axle, ie; sprocket and/or brake disc.
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:16 PM
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I won’t ever use one again..........I was about killed last year on the build off winner from last year. The key way stripped and I was shot 10 feet straight up in the air after getting a electrical box.

And mine was a ON ROAD only kart and never Offroad also. I wouldn’t run one on a odyssey as they are heavier. Mine was really close to your weight I would guess also. I ended up using a Yamaha banshee axle and carrier setup.

I had 3 bearings spaced as close to the tire as I could get them also.
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:49 PM
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I actually read through your build thread last week to see what kind of axle you were running Joe, very surprised you were running a 1" solid axle. But to be fair you were running well over 100 horsepower AND went through a hard crash...pretty much any axle would've bent in that situation. How's that Banshee axle working now? Any idea of the diameter? Did a bunch of looking and can't get any dimensions online. I imagine that Banshee axles are tubular, right? Either way, you're lucky to still be alive.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:27 PM
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Well I've been doing more looking into this question, and I'm still considering either a 1" solid axle (maybe a flexpruf) or a 1.25" hollow axle. Either way I plan on adding a few extra bearings for added durability. Still curious about the Banshee rear axle diameter and whether or not its hollow (I imagine it would be).

In response to 5814SpeedCo, how does the chain handle being twisted in a semi-independent setup? I thought it would have to remian straight to stay on and not pop. I've been looking into trophy karts for inspiration, but I have no idea how the chains stay on when the axle twists.
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquidBonez View Post
Well I've been doing more looking into this question, and I'm still considering either a 1" solid axle (maybe a flexpruf) or a 1.25" hollow axle. Either way I plan on adding a few extra bearings for added durability. Still curious about the Banshee rear axle diameter and whether or not its hollow (I imagine it would be).

In response to 5814SpeedCo, how does the chain handle being twisted in a semi-independent setup? I thought it would have to remian straight to stay on and not pop. I've been looking into trophy karts for inspiration, but I have no idea how the chains stay on when the axle twists.

To answer the question on the trophy kart and how the chain stays in place. The pivot of the swing arm is the same, or close to being the same as the chain. Usually its put in the same plane right off the engine or it's done with a jackshaft to make it work.

For Banshee axle diameter, I'm not sure. I have the baby brother to a Banshee, the YSF-200 Blaster, but it's about 9 hours away from me, otherwise I'd have that axle diameter measured to the nearest .001 of an inch for ya.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:36 PM
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Thanks for the response Kartorbust. Pretty sure the Banshee and the Blaster use the same size axle but don't quote me. If you could get some measurements next time you're around your Blaster it would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:37 PM
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Default What Axle Should I Use For My Buggy?

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Last edited by SquidBonez; 01-31-2020 at 10:00 PM. Reason: duplicate post
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquidBonez View Post
Over the past few weeks I've been planning up a ground-up buggy build. ...

Any advice?
other than to stick with the old thread about the exact same question? no new idea, no

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Old 01-30-2020, 12:47 PM
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other than to stick with the old thread about the exact same question? no new idea, no

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Very sorry, forgot I asked this already lol stupid me
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Old 01-30-2020, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquidBonez View Post
I actually read through your build thread last week to see what kind of axle you were running Joe, very surprised you were running a 1" solid axle. But to be fair you were running well over 100 horsepower AND went through a hard crash...pretty much any axle would've bent in that situation. How's that Banshee axle working now? Any idea of the diameter? Did a bunch of looking and can't get any dimensions online. I imagine that Banshee axles are tubular, right? Either way, you're lucky to still be alive.
I worded my stuff very carefully. Or at least I try.

You have never stated what engine your gonna use. And yes the banshee axle has been absolutely perfect ever since I switched over. Multiple 10,500 rpm launches and it has never failed. And yes mine makes around 230hp to be exact.

The crash was caused by a failed axle and broken key way.
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:44 PM
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Banshee axles seem to be about 40mm in diameter. I can only find one place that even mentions this and I've looked at Banshee forums to see and nada. I had an opportunity to measure my Blaster this past weekend, but I was unfortunately busy. Billet 7075-T6 axle https://farmandsandtoys.com/ocart2/a...inum-40mm.html
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-405 View Post
I worded my stuff very carefully. Or at least I try.

You have never stated what engine your gonna use. And yes the banshee axle has been absolutely perfect ever since I switched over. Multiple 10,500 rpm launches and it has never failed. And yes mine makes around 230hp to be exact.

The crash was caused by a failed axle and broken key way.
No specific engines in mind yet, more focused on chassis design at the moment. Aiming for something in the 45-60 horsepower range, so dirt bike or quad engine (maybe even an electric motor in the future if I could find one for the right price), so nothing close to 230 horsepower. I've decided on the 1-1/4" hollow axle since after doing more hours of research than I'd like to admit I found that's what the 450cc trophy karts use and they take all kinds of abuse and put out roughly 50-55 horsepower. It's also the same size axle used in the Grind Hard Plumbing Co's jeep build which also puts out 55 horsepower (they originally used a 1" solid Flexpruf axle that ended up snapping).
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