Antique kart engines

[Russ2251]

I thought some folks might be interested in seeing some of my collection of antique engines.
Here are 2 of them.
Clinton Machine Co. made large bore chainsaws back in early '50's which ultimately evolved into one of the most popular kart engines ever made.
Independent twin Clinton engine 2 wheel drive karts (not live axle) were not uncommon. One engine would run in normal counter clockwise direction and other ran clockwise. Easy to accomplish with reed inducted engines along with corrected ignition. Right engine looked to be mounted backwards. Extremely rare now and worth BIG BUCKS.
Sadly, Clinton went out of business in early eighties. Back in the day...they were Briggs & Stratton's only real competition.
1st pic is a 1958 (could be much older ?) 2 cycle A-400 2 1/2 hp. Got this as a pile of parts and has been completely rebuilt after 2 years of parts hunting. NOS (New Old Stock) piston, rings & reed plate.
2nd pic is a 1964 (?) 2 cycle 500 3 hp. This has only about 20 original hours on it and is powering a ducted ventilation fan, but bolt for bolt, is no different than the kart engine.

[kibble]

I always find the "old stuff" really interesting. It's cool to see how people managed to make things work back decades ago. My gf lives in Los Alamos, and last year on fourth of July, I believe, they had a section of the town where they had a bunch of antique engines set up and some were running. I took lots of pics and if you want, I could post some up here, maybe you can Identify them.

[ironman]

hey russ ,lol those motors are older than most the people on here amazing how the older motors are still around and even better than alot of the new junking ones you see these days

[Russ2251]

and even better than alot of the new junking ones you see these daysThese will easily blow away a 5hp Briggs.

[Russ2251]

could post some up here, maybe you can Identify them
Bring it on...:cool:

[Jblankster]

These will easily blow away a 5hp Briggs.

yea lol. i see it as a 5 hp 2 stroke is liek equal to a 10 hp 4 stroke. is it like that? because i see these 8 hp motorcycle engines i want in my mini bike. but i think it wont be much faster than my 4 stroke.

i dont know crap about 2 stroke lol

[crazycart]

2 strokes wind out alot more(reach higher rpm's)

[kibble]

Ok Russ, Have at it! There were more than this but they were in videos. I'd have to take some frames out of them to show you. Oh and it wasn't 4th of July, I was wrong, it was an event called Los Alamos Days that they hold one weekend of every September.

[Russ2251]

Most of these are "hit & miss" engines which I know (almost) nothing about.
Pic 4 is an Iron Horse which can be clearly read on starter cup. This was used on early '50's rotary mowers manufactured by RPM Co. and became the Lawn-Boy model 'A' after being purchased by Outboard Marine Corp. The same folks that still make Evinrude & Johnson outboard motors. OMC sold Lawn-Boy to Toro in late eighties.
Pic 5 is a real rarity but I am somewhat familiar with it. This would be a REO engine. Oddball stuff. It used gear reduction, internally, to drive reel type mowers and appeared to run backwards. That is...starter cup ran in one direction while pto turned in opposite direction.
Valve train configuration was known as a 'T' head. In typical flatheads, intake and exhaust valves are next each other on one side of piston. 'T' head has valves on either side of piston. The front would be intake side (as mower is moving toward you) while exhaust valve would be on operator side. See attached.

REO is actually R. E. Olds who brought us the Oldsmobile as well as the REO automobiles.

[JerryAssburger]

A friend in shop class back in 1981 had a REO... What a wild motor! Has anyone ever seen one of those Maytag engines? Really neat. The oldest things I have are my B/S 5s and 6s motors. Not that exotic.

[robin]

yeah 2 strokes are alot more power full and simple but a 4 stroke of the same hp not capacity would use half the petrol and last allot longer and 2 strokes use a total loss lubrication system.

in my bike race tuned 50cc bored out to an 80cc i have to replace the pot and piston every 7000km

[Russ2251]

Overall advantages of 2 cycles outweigh all disadvantages of which I can only think of 1...unless your a tree hugger.
Let the flaming begin!!!
My opinion.

[jr dragster Tyler]

a 2 disadvantage is the oil to fuel mixing. 3 the smoke 4 the noise 5 the oily residue around the motor. But of course theres advantages/disagvantages to everything.

[Russ2251]

I don't have to fill my crankcase with oil, check oil, change oil, or properly dispose of oil. Mixing is about as difficult as making Koolaid.
Todays engines/oils are practically (but not completely) smokeless.:sifone: I'll give ya this one.:cheers2:
No more noisy than an equivalent sized and stock muffled 4 cycle +/- a couple of db.
Oily residue indicates wrong oil mix/maladjusted carb (rich).
Fewer moving parts. No valves, mechanical governors, oil slingers, pumps, camshaft, push rods or lifters.
Higher rpm.
No crankcase breather.
Easier to start in cold weather, hence the recent increased usage in snowblowers/throwers by some major manufacturers.
Roughly half the weight of 4 cycle.
Much more horsepower/lb.
Smaller overall volume.
Can run in any position.

[JerryAssburger]

I'll have to side with Russ on the higher rpm advantage..... Most of the karts out there are geared too short because they need off the line torque, but can only wind out as far as their owners dare on the top end. Here's another one- Always a clean supply of lube oil (as long as the air filter is clean.). If someone EVER figures a way around the emissions disadvantage, 2 strokes would rise again.

[my_mini_bike]

2 strokes suck!!!


lol nah im just reving you up russ
to some 6000 rpm lol :thumbsup:

[kibble]

If someone EVER figures a way around the emissions disadvantage, 2 strokes would rise again.

I hate all these stupid regulations we have here in California! Can't even legally modify our cars with customs parts unless they are CARB approved. I've seen plenty of sites and magazines that sell pocket bikes and karts and stuff that say: "Not for sale in California" but it's funny that there's still places where you can buy such things here so I don't get it. Oh and another thing, and I'll get off my soapbox.. They seem to go after the small things here and they don't do anything about larger, more contributing factors. I see TONS of people that drive large SUV's where there are usually only one or two passengers in the vehicle and yet they go after gas powered tools and recreational toys like karts, and minibikes. Maybe if these fun things weren't illegal (I'm still making mine, I don't care if it's legal or not) kids would be more inclined to getting outdoors, making stuff and being creative instead of being so messed up by MTV culture like they are now a days. Britney spears did what? I DON'T :censored: CARE ABOUT BRITNEY! I bow my head in shame as to what a lot of kids have become. I'm just glad I didn't turn out to be one of them.

OK Sorry, didn't mean to take over :oops:

[Russ2251]

I bow my head in shame as to what a lot of kids have become. I'm just glad I didn't turn out to be one of them.
Bless you Mr. Kibble.

[crazycart]

The bombadier (skidoo) 2 stroke snowmobiles now are equipped with the direct injection that they use in evinrude e tech marine engines and they easily pass the epa standards and get good mileage from what i hear.

2 STROKES RULE!!!

[Russ2251]

Yup...I read a short blurb about it somewhere recently and saw animation. If I can locate link I will post here.

[jr dragster Tyler]

I don't have to fill my crankcase with oil, check oil, change oil, or properly dispose of oil. Mixing is about as difficult as making Koolaid.
Todays engines/oils are practically (but not completely) smokeless.:sifone: I'll give ya this one.:cheers2:
No more noisy than an equivalent sized and stock muffled 4 cycle +/- a couple of db.
Oily residue indicates wrong oil mix/maladjusted carb (rich).
Fewer moving parts. No valves, mechanical governors, oil slingers, pumps, camshaft, push rods or lifters.
Higher rpm.
No crankcase breather.
Easier to start in cold weather, hence the recent increased usage in snowblowers/throwers by some major manufacturers.
Roughly half the weight of 4 cycle.
Much more horsepower/lb.
Smaller overall volume.
Can run in any position.



Yeah I guess its personnal preference wether to go 2 or 4 stroke I like both.

[Russ2251]

I like both.
Cool...a partial convert.:thumbsup:

[Russ2251]

pic #1 Forward view screen image on 6.5 hp 2 cycle Lawn-Boy powered gokart @ 1/2 throttle.
pic #2 Forward view screen image on 6.5 Honda clone powered gokart @ full throttle.
:biggrinjester:

[kibble]

Wow, that honda pic looks the a horses @$$! :drool5:

I still gotta get working on that Lawn Boy I got the other day. It has been sitting in my garage since I got it.

[oscaryu1]

Hmm... my oldest engine is a 1959 Briggs & Stratton 2HP.

Amazingly, it looks new, and always starts, usually within 2 pulls. I love it! $50 from eBay in 05'. And I was 10 back then :eek:

Amazing how I actually took care of it... :D

[Russ2251]

I still gotta get working on that Lawn Boy I got the other day.Hardest part of this endeavor will be removing blade adapter.
Can be a :censored: (female dog), but I have mastered it.
By the way...My cat eats Kibbles for breakfast.:drool5:
"What's in your wallet?"

[kibble]

Would a puller help with that adapter you speak of? I have one that's for pulleys and such.

So, your cat likes me huh? :drool5:

In my wallet? A bunch of receipts and several "club" cards and my ID, and a few other things. My Capital One card is sitting at home in a drawer with several other cards...where I can't use them to get myself in more debt... :surrender: :oops: LOL:arf:

[Russ2251]

Would a puller help with that adapter you speak of?Did not work for me. It just bent up flange but is worth a try.

The following is what works for me every time. Keep in mind that this is a tight tapered fit.
Hit on edge of adapter corners as if to 'unscrew' it with hammer against compression stroke alternating corners as you go. Alternating counter clockwise and then clockwise. Don't forget that this engine is designed to withstand blade strikes (rocks. stumps etc.) whilst running at 3600 rpm. I avoid heating because it can aggravate the situation. Be patient---it will suddenly just pop off. Penetrating oil overnight may help.
Let me know how it goes.

[kibble]

Awww thanks man! :thumbsup: I appreciate the tip! I'll certainly let you know.

[ironman]

russ what would you think be a good price on one of those older style motors if you found one to buy.

[Russ2251]

russ what would you think be a good price on one of those older style motors if you found one to buy.
Varies quite a bit. First Lawn-Boy I got was free (from trash) and had a bad CDI pack. Engine was **** near perfect otherwise. This ultimately ended up on my kart.
Most I paid was $50.00 plus $23.00 shipping for a 6.5 hp DuraForce. I did not want go higher than this.
These mowers/engines are quickly becoming collectible.
A Clinton 2 cycle might go as high as $300 or as low as $75 depending on condition and completeness.
Lawn-Boy on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lawnboy-duraforce-mower_W0QQitemZ290214792019QQihZ019QQcategoryZ8224 1QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Clinton Kart engine on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/CLINTON-PANTHER-ENGINE-2-1-2HP-A400-GO-KART-MOTORCYCLE_W0QQitemZ230232964934QQihZ013QQcategory Z97118QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI tem
If you are new to 2 cycle engine building I would not recommend the Clinton as parts are expensive and very hard to come by....but I highly recommend the Lawn-Boys.

[kibble]

Holy crapstain underwear batman! :eek: That lawnboy is already up to over $100 as of right now! I guess I got a good deal at only $50 for the one I bought.

[Russ2251]

That lawnboy is already up to over $100Both will likely go much higher---especially in last few minutes due to 'sniping'.

[Russ2251]

A friend in shop class back in 1981 had a REO...Found some interesting antique engine videos. Clinton A400 is same as one that I own.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4PbzuqFKXJs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HLf4q39E9WA

[Russ2251]

Jacobsen J321 2 cycle (c.1960) with cross flow-scavenging.
Was never a popular kart engine. Could be because most of them had gear reduction pto for reel type mowers. This one (I believe) came off an edger. Seems to have more stones than the Clintons of the day.
Rated at 2.5 hp but behaves more like 4.5 or better. I did cheat a little by increasing compression ratio. Hasn't been clocked but guess speed to be around mid 30's. 12 tooth Maxtorque clutch driving 72 tooth sprocket on drive wheel.
Original muffler was cast iron and accounted for almost 1/2 the weight of entire engine.
I like the straight through design.

[Russ2251]

Originally sold for about $50. Compare to my pics at beginning of thread.

[mini bike man]

i had an old reo motor i gave it to a friend. the first clinton posted is the orginal motor off my lil indina rupp lol its kinda kool to see theres a couple still aorund