Buy,sell,trade section ending

[freakboy]

Can we just temporarly close the Buy sell and trade section due to all the scamers? and make a rule about no buying or selling on the forums?
im making it a poll so we can see what everyone thinks.

[lemegacool]

i dont think we should close it... just make it harder to get in... like at airsoftcanada.com to look at the "classified" section you must be "age verified" meaning that you met a representent of the forum in person and that he checked your age... then you get a new user status and the permission to access the classified section.... that being said... a system like that would not work for us since members are all around the world... BUT we should have some sort of system to restrain the acces of the buy/sell section...

[freakboy]

i think we should just close it for a little while or have it only accesable to senior members with more then 300 post's i need to fix the poll cause it didnt work right

nevermind i have no way of fixing it now. i guess just post your oppinions, i dont want anyone getting ****ed over

[lemegacool]

at airsoft canada we also have a "buy/sell" trader rating... like a ebay feedback, could be good for here too

[Freakly]

i think if you post a for sell/trade tread then you should have to put up a min. of 3 pictures of the item at different angles or something and must make a little sign saying your username in the pic next to your item. If a picture isnt present within a day of posting then a mod deletes it and no one ends up getting scammed for a item. just my 2 cents. Oh and a mod will only give 1 warning to post pictures befor he removes.

[freakboy]

that would work.

[Freakly]

Also if excuses are used like "i dont have/cant find my camera" or "its at a friends house" ..... you no..... will be deleted right away. Meaning Dont post a topic until you have pictures ready.

[freakboy]

yeah sounds good

[lemegacool]

yeah the username on the pic is a REALLY good idea...

[freakboy]

it has to be something physical tho they cant water mark there name.

[lemegacool]

well that solution will take care of the pic stealers but nothing blocks someone to take an actual pic of something he have with is username written on it and just not sent it...

[freakboy]

yeah other then removing the buy sell trade section and having a rule against it. if someone wants to legitly sell there stuff over the internet go to ebay....

[TOO FAST]

I think the only way to stop the scams is to disallow any selling - you could still mention
what you have for sale and refer them to your ebay listing etc. If you don't have an
ebay or other listing reference, your outta here.

[t0x1k]

A time limit and post limit, as in so many weeks/months before you are allowed to post topics in here.

Simple. They'll get annoyed and eventually go away.

[oscaryu1]

i think if you post a for sell/trade tread then you should have to put up a min. of 3 pictures of the item at different angles or something and must make a little sign saying your username in the pic next to your item. If a picture isnt present within a day of posting then a mod deletes it and no one ends up getting scammed for a item. just my 2 cents. Oh and a mod will only give 1 warning to post pictures befor he removes.

Piece of paper with username posted on it works good.

I still vouch for the 30 day classifieds accessed thing.

[kazkepox]

we need a minimum post count for selling stuff, that helps with the scammers so they don't bother with trying to get so many posts just to try and scam, and it would be kind of a tip off when you see the new guy just randomly posting and making threads rapidly if they wanted to scam us

[Kaptain Krunch]

I think a 2-3 month waiting period and 200-300 post count limit would be a good idea for buy/sell section, and still have to make a poster with your username to include in the picture. I think another section called "ebay listings" or something along those lines would be nice, that way new members can simply post there items on ebay, then put the link up here to let people know what they got for sale.

[skip289]

I think it would be well worth the effort to stop scammers on the buy and sell, but if you use a high post count and long waiting period. you are penalizing all the new people who come here.
Most of which are just starting and need good parts at a resonable cost, also some have been karting for awhile and just found this forum and have extra parts they don't need anymore.

I looked at the first two pages of the member list and of 180 members only 6 had post over 100, and of the six I don't know how many are active users.

Sorry I don't have a good solution to the problem.

The best suggestion I have would be to add a feedback thread under the buy and sell so at least you would have a idea of how previous deals were handled.

[freakboy]

or just direct the new person to ebay or a reliable person to buy parts off of.

[Kaptain Krunch]

I would assume anyone who comes here and joins is (or should be) interested in go karting, minibiking, or just building crazy cool creations. If they do have parts they need to sell, they can most likely make more money off ebay, or even craigslist. As for the new members that want to buy reasonably priced parts, maybe they should still be able to see the forum just not post in it, so they can still buy just not sell.

[neebles]

I like the idea of new users being able to buy, but not sell. Maybe there can be some sort of feedback system, that once you get up to a certain point, 5 buys or something, it allows you to post 1 for sale item. Once that goes through, and closes with good feedback, you get another. Perhaps once your feedback rating gets higher, it will allow more "for sale" slots.....

[Kaptain Krunch]

i like that idea, very few scammers will actually buy 5 things just so they can try to rip someone off. Plus if its a scammer over seas, they can lie and say there in the us and will ship anywhere.

[anderkart]

Hey freakboy, you could appoint yourself as our undercover scam patrol. I was thinking anytime you run across a DIY ad you think might be a scam, you could simply reply to it like your seriously interested in buying and just casually ask where the item is located. What ever town they say, just lie and tell them you live close by (or have a friend/relatives that do) and you'd like to come over and take a look at it. Their response to this should make it pretty obvious if your dealing with a scammer or not.

Many legitimate sellers will be reluctant to give out their home address to some stranger on the net, (even in a pm or phone call) so if you run across this situation just tell them you'd be willing to hook up at their choice of a store parking lot or something. If you find someone not even willing to do this, you've found a scammer and you could let every one else know by posting your scam alert right on the sellers ad.

Anyone else that doesnt have their location in their DIY profile (or temporarily deletes it) could help out by doing the same.

[freakboy]

I did that through pm to the guy who was sellin that horn blaster stuff.

[anderkart]

Cool, I cant think of any other method that wouldnt end up penalising legitimate sellers. I'll try to help you out with any ads that seem a bit fishy to me.

[freakboy]

alright just pm me the link if you find them and sometimes you can tell scamers because they try to hard to gain trust with us like that one guy we just called out as a scammer with the horn kit cause his post just seem un-natural for a first time user they were just too GOOD JOB! and crap like that ill keep my eyes peeled lol.

[r_chez_08]

at airsoft canada we also have a "buy/sell" trader rating... like a ebay feedback, could be good for here too

i was going to post that up as a suggestion

[kartkiller]

I belong to many car forums and there is one good way of doing tis as other sites do. You pay xx of dollars a year to be a active member, thus allowing you to sell items. The money could go towards site hosting or a yearly get together or a raffle of some sort every year...... Just a thought

Also need to add that scammers wont pay to play

[Kaptain Krunch]

I dont want to completely shut down your idea, but i think we would lose a lot of members if we charged a monthly or yearly fee. The majority of members here are teenagers, and arent going to want to spend money to be part of a site.

[freakboy]

Yeah if you charged me to be here id be gone long gone.

[skip289]

A lot of good ideas, some of you are probably on other forums with items for sale, how do they deal with scammers?

[freakboy]

The two other forums i belong too never had scamers because one is full of local airsoft players and the other is nationwide lawn mower racers. so other then here ive never had to deal with scamers.

[kartkiller]

I dont want to completely shut down your idea, but i think we would lose a lot of members if we charged a monthly or yearly fee. The majority of members here are teenagers, and arent going to want to spend money to be part of a site.

No, no not like that. I mean pay a yearly fee to be able to sell stuff, not pay jut to be here.

[anderkart]

No, no not like that. I mean pay a yearly fee to be able to sell stuff, not pay jut to be here.

Yeah my bass players forum is like that, It definitely helps out with the scammers but it also penalises all the honest sellers.

[Kaptain Krunch]

No, no not like that. I mean pay a yearly fee to be able to sell stuff, not pay jut to be here.

I would say thats basically like closing the buy/sell/trade section, because i doubt too many people would pay to sell kart parts. there really arent enough people this forum that buy parts here, that paying even $10 to try to sell parts here, wouldnt be worth it.

[anderkart]

I agree.

Anytime you get any group of people together your going to have problems with some. Either everyone helps out to police the trouble makers and handle the situation themselves, or you'll end up with a bunch of rules, regulations or laws that will end up somehow screwing over the good honest people too. (our maze of local, state and federal laws are a good example of that)

[kartkiller]

Well I guess you could either just shut it down or just simply if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.......leave it alone.

Good luck. I only deal with local sellers. I always go pick up my buys.

[newrider3]

I think everyone is looking past the obvious "more moderators" option. The only mod I see here regularly is mr. Tyler, and that just isn't enough to keep watch.

[freakboy]

but then you have people like me who report spam and scamers and try and eliminate it the best we can but only one constantly active mod.

[Kaptain Krunch]

yup i gotta say, more mods is probably a good option, but that isnt going to stop it all. Knapman was not an obvious scammer, he had a good act and no one thought anything of it until his off-road karts with free shipping thread.

[birddog1148]

This is how we do it at www.offroadOhio.com.

We'll keep this simple.

1. PRICE IS A MUST. That means no MAKE ME AN OFFER post. No price is needed if its a TRADE only ad.

2. LOCATION is a must. If its in Gabbersville, PUT located in Gabbersville. If you FILL IN your location in your profile it will show up and you wont need to worry about it

3. If you are NOT interested in the item forsale DO NOT reply to the post.
That means no "Bump for a good guy" "thats a pile of ****" That is WAY to high of a price" replies.

The ONLY exception to this rule is if the SELLER is a known con artist, bad seller, etc. If this is the case you may ONLY post a link to the Seller review.
Example: If someone post a forsale ad it is ok to post a link to the topic disscusing the bad practices. NOTHING ELSE!!!!!

4. You may bump your OWN thread once per week. Any more than that and your post WILL be deleted no exceptions!

5. EDIT the TITLE of yoru thread to say SOLD once your item has been sold.

6. ANYONE who's first post is a FORSALE ad, or who post a forsale ad within 24hrs of registering WILL BE REMOVED! This website IS NOT craigslist, you can pedal your goods for free there.

There will be ZERO tolerance on these rules. If the forsale ad doesnt have price or location it will be REMOVED. If you post in a forsale ad, and you have no intentions to BUY, the post will be removed and you will recieve a warning. Third warning will get you banned from the classified section of the site.

[freakboy]

That seems like it would be good ground rules.

and i think we do need more mods i could if you wanted me to mabey we can have a vote for a new mod? with nominations? and like whole voting deal?

[newrider3]

I'm guessing new mods would all be up to Robert as the admin.

[freakboy]

yeah but have a comunity vote for which ones we would like and then we run it buy robert.

[oscaryu1]

This is how we do it at www.offroadOhio.com.

We'll keep this simple.

1. PRICE IS A MUST. That means no MAKE ME AN OFFER post. No price is needed if its a TRADE only ad.

2. LOCATION is a must. If its in Gabbersville, PUT located in Gabbersville. If you FILL IN your location in your profile it will show up and you wont need to worry about it

3. If you are NOT interested in the item forsale DO NOT reply to the post.
That means no "Bump for a good guy" "thats a pile of ****" That is WAY to high of a price" replies.

The ONLY exception to this rule is if the SELLER is a known con artist, bad seller, etc. If this is the case you may ONLY post a link to the Seller review.
Example: If someone post a forsale ad it is ok to post a link to the topic disscusing the bad practices. NOTHING ELSE!!!!!

4. You may bump your OWN thread once per week. Any more than that and your post WILL be deleted no exceptions!

5. EDIT the TITLE of yoru thread to say SOLD once your item has been sold.

6. ANYONE who's first post is a FORSALE ad, or who post a forsale ad within 24hrs of registering WILL BE REMOVED! This website IS NOT craigslist, you can pedal your goods for free there.

There will be ZERO tolerance on these rules. If the forsale ad doesnt have price or location it will be REMOVED. If you post in a forsale ad, and you have no intentions to BUY, the post will be removed and you will recieve a warning. Third warning will get you banned from the classified section of the site.

#4 I'd say once/day.

#5 I don't think you can edit titles lol. On some forums you can, other's can't.

#6 Just make a small half month rule or something...

[r_chez_08]

#1 i think best offer works ok.

[kibble]

It's really difficult to make up a foolproof set of rules to have that will eliminate 100% of scammers. The best thing to use is common sense; don't just jump into buying something without first asking necessary questions. Don't immediately trust someone with very low post count. I do agree that it would probably be a good idea to have a forum where the for sale post had to meet certain criteria, otherwise the post would be removed.

Another thing is that maybe we do need more mods on this forum. It used to be a time when only a few of us could take care of most things as they happened but, the forums have gotten bigger and with that come more scammers/spammers. Even though I haven't posted much lately, I still try to take care of reported posts when I get the emails. Back when this site was still relatively young, we hardly saw any spam, if at all. Heck, it wasn't unusual to only have like 6 new posts or so a day. :roflol:

[freakboy]

I think we could use more mods because for the most part tyler is the only one who is a mod thats on almost everyday. you are on here once a month or so.

[r_chez_08]

i could be 1 if you wanted, im on here pretty much every day.

[freakboy]

I would have to vote for kaptian hes pretty dang responsible when it comes to this stuff. i could but its up to you guys.

[Kaptain Krunch]

Woohoo... Either way I think more mods is a good idea.

Oh yea, freak go on aim got a funny story to tell ya.

[freakboy]

Alright i forgot i restarted my computer

[Smurph]

scams will happen no matter what.

What we need is a post informing the users of safe techniques online as they pertain to buying and selling in an insecure environment (as opposed to ebay with paypal). Although Paypal does offer some protection for you as an online buyer.

A few things to note would be
NEVER NEVER EVER wire money (moneygram/western union) to someone you do not know in person. I can't stress this enough!!

Money orders should be an absolute last resort. They do offer some paper trail/proof, but if you get scammed, getting your money back won't be easy, and probably won't be cheap, or worth the effort.

Paypal offers the best online security. This has a lot to do with them being a big company that can afford to cover your lost cash, and can afford to prosecute the other end.

Closing the whole section is detrimental to the forum, and is not the answer to the problem.

We need to look at it from the other end, and close all the openings the scammers work through. Such "loop holes" that allow members to be scammed includes a member being misinformed on how online different online transactions work.
Informing users on what they can do to protect themselves online will be a big step in preventing scammers.

Another idea I had would be to remove the forum section, and add a website section. I am very good with PHP, and I can do this for you if you'd like. I'll do it just for the sake of the community.
What I had in mind would be a page where a user can submit his or her classified ad. If the user is submitting a "for sale" ad, the ad will have to go through a review process. Site members that are granted access (moderators) will be able to check a page to see the submitted ads. They can review the ads and can require more information, or give it the go-ahead and it'll go live. Going live means it will show up on a page that all of the Site's members will be able to see.

This allows the mods to review each post, if the user has very few posts, or if it seems fishy, a mod can ask for more information (maybe another pic with the username, a phone number to call for verification, etc). This will greatly reduce scamming.

Robert, PM me if you'd like to see something like this in action. I'm a Software Engineer, this is no problem for me. I could get a rough draft of it all coded in about a day, having a live, bug-free version in under seven days. I can host it on my personal site for testing purposes. Again, no monetary compensation would be necessary as I enjoy helping others.

[robertdjung]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. LOTS of good ideas in here, including (and I agree!) more mods. I need to mull over the ideas a little bit.

Smurph PM'd me with some interesting ideas, we're going to discuss them a little more and see what we can do with his idea.

First thing that I will do, however, is get up a sticky post with a "best practices" ideas / checklist type thing for buying and posting things to buy.


Thanks, and please PM me any time tipping me off to threads like this. I'll admit, I don't always see them! :surrender:

[freakboy]

Alright will do.