New member! New OFF ROAD PROJECT! [Archive]

03BLACKGT

03-23-2009, 09:45 PM

Whats up guys. Name is Alex and I just want to start by thanking everyone here who has contributed in some way to this site. Before i started my build, I took lots of info and ideas from all over the web. This forum is by far one of the best. Now to my kart.

This is my off road rig that Im about 2 weeks into.
Its a 10hp techumseh motor with a comet 40 series tc. (I had an 8hp motor with this clutch on an old kart and that baby did about 40-45.)

Frame is BIG, but its intent is on a 2 seater. 1.5" sqaure tubing 1/8th" thickwall will make up the lower frame and probly 1" round tube for the cage later on.

Twin a-arm suspension up front with 2 mechanical shocks and there will be 2 shocks in the hinged rear as well.

I pulled the steering rack and pin out of a 92 toyota corola. It will need a trim and to weld some smaller rod ends on. About 3/4 revolution of the steering wheel turns the tires from a full left to a full right.

Tires in rear are 22/11/8 i belive and front are 16/?/8.

WHAT DO YOU THINK!?? I can use all the input I can get.

03BLACKGT

03-23-2009, 09:50 PM

sry ... pics were to big at first

theo

03-23-2009, 10:15 PM

Are you going to shorten the rack?

theo

03BLACKGT

03-23-2009, 10:19 PM

ya the rack will get shortened and the rod ends will be replacex with much smaller ones

modelengineer

03-24-2009, 01:20 AM

Looks great. Are you going to add more support to the front suspension 'box'? It looks like it wouldn't take much atm to fold itself upwards.

03BLACKGT

03-24-2009, 04:45 AM

yeah its gonna tie into the cage and sterring wheel supports. gonna try to run a brace from the front and rear of the front suspension box. not sure exactly how yet. Lots of triangles

BradenM

03-24-2009, 05:32 PM

Damm,thats mighty fine. Great work!

JerryAssburger

03-24-2009, 06:23 PM

Really cool. Of course videos will follow....? HINT!

03BLACKGT

03-24-2009, 08:21 PM

of course videos! whenever i actually get it running. Its only been a a couple weeks, but it feels like Ive been working on this forever.

Anyways I started making shock mounts up front but not sure if my current idea is gonna work.

In the blue circle ive made 4 holes for almost 2 inches in height adjustment. The red will be 1/4" triangle plate for a little more support. Any thought?

dpaxson

03-25-2009, 06:29 PM

i'm not an expert but you're kingpin brackets look a little weak compared to the rest of the frame. If it were me i would put a couple triangular gusetts or something on the top and bottom of the brakets. Your kart is looking awesome though!

theo

03-25-2009, 07:48 PM

you don't need any gussets, there is no for and aff load there, just side. What wall thickness are you using with that square tubing?

theo

mccolld

03-25-2009, 09:25 PM

Dude,

Your buggy looks alsome.

Your frame is going to be PLENTY strong.

Why did you go with two different sizes of wheels?

Also, where did you source your hubs and axels?

Doug

mccolld

03-25-2009, 09:26 PM

Oh, one last question.

I've been thinking about going to Pull-A-Part and getting a rack like yours. What did you pay for it? If it's close the the cost of a new buggy rack, I may go that route.

Doug

03BLACKGT

03-26-2009, 08:08 AM

thanks for the input. the 1 1/2" square tubing is .120 wall 1/8" more or less. i got the steering rack for 48$ w/out tie rods but im not usin them anyway. the front tires are temporary marups. -alex

theo

03-26-2009, 08:27 AM

Man that's thick tubing you are using.

theo

03BLACKGT

03-26-2009, 10:40 AM

its my first kart and i want it to last lol. im gonna run it hard. it might see some big jumps in its time

03BLACKGT

03-26-2009, 10:54 AM

Doug i got the rear axel with the diff from northern tool (100$) and its worth every penny. i can do donuuts and drifts but with stength of a solid axle

modelengineer

03-26-2009, 03:14 PM

Is it a LSD? Or does it to 1 wheel burnouts and drifts?

btw the buggy looks awesome. Have you seen mine? http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2503

03BLACKGT

03-26-2009, 07:53 PM

for the kid in me

03-28-2009, 07:31 AM

looking good

Raywelder

03-28-2009, 07:49 PM

Non limited slip ... (correct me if im wrong). Tires spin in opposite dirrection when you spin one with no load. I had been watchin your sidewinder build Andrew. Looks awesome! Thats my favorite one so far. Im just not a "plans" kinda guy lol or I would have stuck to that layout.

Anyways... progress for today! Got the whole front end suspension tacked up. No more jack under frame up front.

First pick is at the 2nd highest position and second picture is at the highest.

Open differential rear end, when off the ground, they spin opposite.
Limited slip is posi.

Frame looks good, looks similiar to my layout, except I abandoned the rear swing arm for Independent suspension like the front.

I think I would have mounted the shocks inside the A-rms, instead of on the top one, Of course, it works the same either way, but I like the looks of it done the other way.

03BLACKGT

03-28-2009, 08:08 PM

Yeah I had planned it out so that the shock mounted on the lower a-arm until i brought the steering rack in. I was way to tight so i had to move it up top.

I had a few set backs today. The sprocket I was using didnt fit on the rear diff so I had to go out and buy a new 60th 41 chain. After I got that on, the length of the jackshaft set the motor to far over that it rubbed on the rear tire. So I had to buy a smaller shaft with a keyway all the way through and relocate everything. Should have the new motor mount welded on by tommorow.

So is non limited slip and open dif the same thing?

Raywelder

03-28-2009, 08:14 PM

So is non limited slip and open dif the same thing?

Yea, Except its usually not called, "non limited slip" Its either open, limited slip, or Locked.

Open being one wheel drive basically.

limited slip being, both wheels lock together under torque,

and completely locked is just when the wheels are locked together all the time like in a welded differential.

I can't wait to see if together and running!.
You said you were going to put a cage on this right?

03BLACKGT

03-28-2009, 08:50 PM

Lol a cage of course. I almost flipped the junker i bought for parts only having it for 1 day. It didnt have a cage

Raywelder

03-28-2009, 09:08 PM

You building the cage from pipe or squaring tubing?

03BLACKGT

03-28-2009, 10:19 PM

Raywelder

03-29-2009, 11:13 AM

I dont have a bender, and still built my go cart and a minibike with tubing, to bend mine, I just take a grinder blade, cut 5 or 6 little slits or pie slices out of the pipe, and bend it up, then weld it back up. Time consuming, but it works. And you usually get fairly tight bends if you need to.

Heres the suspension I built for mine on the front,
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh237/Cb2010usa/06-19-08_0321.jpg?t=1238347155

Sadly, I think I'm going to cut it out and take the suspension from an IFS truck, lengthen the A-arms, and Run small trailer wheels up front.
I'm doing the same thing on the back, except using the Front end off on a 4wd truck with cv joints.

noley99

03-29-2009, 01:46 PM

The plan was to have a square frame and a round tubed cage, but im not sure yet. I dont have a bender availbe for such a big diameter round tube. So it might just be a cut and weld square cage. Idk yet. Still contemplating

If you go with round tubing you could do what I did... maybe. I borrowed an EMT/Conduit bender from a friend of mine who owns a electrical company. Or you could rent one from your local tool rental store. I found that most of the chain stores don't have them, check the mom and pop places or either a local electrical supply company.

03BLACKGT

03-29-2009, 05:13 PM

Ill check the local stores first. Thanks noley. If not, then I like your idea Raywelder. I got a handy torch that could make that pretty easy I guess.

Anyway, I got the steering rack mounted by modifying the stock mounts. Also cut the the rod ends off and welded up some smaller ends with a tapped round bar. The ends seem really weak compared to the rest of it, but I think its more of overkill on the rack. Ive seen the same ends used on karts similar to mine so... here it is.

-aLeX-

theo

03-29-2009, 05:25 PM

Now take the shocks off, leave the rack and tie rods attached to the spindles, point both tires straight ahead, and now lift the a arms up and see if there is a toe out change on the front wheels?

theo

Raywelder

03-29-2009, 05:47 PM

The top of the tires should lean outward shouldnt they? I think mine do when I lay the frame out on the ground, but I can't remember.
I like your steering rack setup, Thats what I'm going to do when I get ahold of one.
How much did it run you?
I may be getting one for free, thats bent, off of my friends race car though.

jr dragster Tyler

03-29-2009, 05:57 PM

Watch your weld where you welded that thead rod or carrage bolt to the rack rod. Doesnt look the safest.

Raywelder

03-29-2009, 05:58 PM

Watch your weld where you welded that thead rod or carrage bolt to the rack rod. Doesnt look the safest.

Yea, looks like it could use another bead run around it.

03BLACKGT

03-29-2009, 06:26 PM

ohh its not welded yet ... nothing is. lol. I welded the threaded rod to a small piece of 1/8" plate then tacked the plate to the rack. Its gonna be beveled and welded for a full pentration pass. then gonna build up the weld around the thread rod. Possilby even add small brackets for more support.

As far as the toe is conserned, Im expecting some, but no havent checked how much yet as how nothing is welded and dont want to put to much pressure on anything. Thanks

Raywelder

03-30-2009, 03:41 PM

Harbor freight has a cheap 100 dollar bender. It would work well enough for this Im sure.

xoltri

03-30-2009, 03:56 PM

Harbor freight has a cheap 100 dollar bender. It would work well enough for this Im sure.

I've read a lot about that bender online and it is not the best for tubing. It is meant for pipe; pipe and tube are not the same.

Some people report success with tubing and others say it is a waste of time & money.

Raywelder

03-30-2009, 05:03 PM

I've read a lot about that bender online and it is not the best for tubing. It is meant for pipe; pipe and tube are not the same.

Some people report success with tubing and others say it is a waste of time & money.

Yea, tube is structural, and pipe has like internal strength or something?

The HF bender will bend tubing real well if you pack them with sand. But that's a lot of hassle. I wouldn't hesitate to use black iron pipe for this though, Its plenty strong for a cage on this, the bender would work better for it too.

I've read similar reports on the bender, almost got one for half the price on craigslist, but decided to save up for a good one, as I plan on using it a lot more.

03BLACKGT

03-30-2009, 07:23 PM

I actually own the HF pipe bender... works great on pipe. But black piped would make for a much heavier kart that it already is. Ive tried it on tubing, but not to satisfied. The sand trick is new to me. I do have a few bags of sand. Might give it a shot.

Raywelder

03-30-2009, 07:38 PM

oh, You have a bender already! What the heck man, Get to work! haha.
Yea, you just take the tube and pack it TIGHT with sand, Then you do your bending.
Theres a youtube video on it, but They ground out the die to fit the tube better too. you may have to grind out the die a bit. I'd say screw it and do a black pipe one lol.

Buick455

03-30-2009, 10:23 PM

I actually think the sand trick was started by the moonshiners to coil there copper for the condensers... Works pretty well, I have tried it.

Also if the HF bender is like the Northern bender you can get different dies for it. I'll look for the link I found and get back to you.

03BLACKGT

04-02-2009, 09:18 PM

Ok so I ran into a lil snag. Today I welded up everything that ive posted in the pics above and aligned it all up so i can get on with the rest of the cage. I mounted up the shocks and steering rack and pulled out the jacks from under it.

Everything looks good BUT!, the mechanical shocks I used can be compressed almost all the way down with simply the weight of me standing at the very front of the frame. I realize that there will hardly be that amount of weight at the front, especially under hard acceleration but im not sure if this is at all exceptab;e.

Im afraid im gonna bottom out on the smallest of bumps. Anyone with a full suspenion able to give me some advice? I know I can simply relocate the shocks, but if idont have to, i dont want to.

theo

04-02-2009, 10:05 PM

Double up the shocks. When you do the rear, have your shocks somewhere around 90 deg to the a arm that you have mounted the shocks to at full compression.

theo

03BLACKGT

04-03-2009, 10:50 AM

genius lol ill stop and pick up an extra pair of shocks today. i might get bigger atv shocks for the rear

Raywelder

04-03-2009, 11:15 AM

Mine compress alot when I stand on the very front, but when you stand in the middle, it is alot less compression.
It might be fine,

I know you can almost bottom the ones out at tractor supply when you do that.

03BLACKGT

04-03-2009, 12:34 PM

ill jump on the ones at northern tool and see what happends.

Raywelder

04-03-2009, 02:54 PM

ill jump on the ones at northern tool and see what happends.

Ha good idea, And you have an northern tool store? You suck.
Even though its probably too expensive for me anyways.

Cautrell05

04-07-2009, 12:26 PM

Do you have the shocks leaned way in for maximum travel? Remounting them on the lower arm and standing them up will make them more effective but you will lose some travel. Just depends on what your after. For max travel you will need stiffer springs with them at that angle.

Nick

03BLACKGT

04-07-2009, 09:12 PM

I mounted them on top after I installed the steering rack because things got crowded. Reason for the angle was so that the shock mounts werent ridiculously high after that change. And works well for travel yes.

Neway, heres a few pics of the cage coming to be. Rear shocks have been mounted and engine seated. Theres only like 1/4" clearence on the TC but it fits.
I dont quite like the look of the height. Unless I leaned my seats (which I havent found yet) farther back, I need the head room.
Theres still alot that needs to be done. I need a cross section for the steering mount kinda like a dash board. Then support off of that, and replace the 1" square tube bracing the upper rear frame with two 2" pieces.

03BLACKGT

04-21-2009, 04:41 PM

Sorry guys, its been a while since I've been on the borads. A couple weeks ago I picked up the last few peices I needed to get it running as well as some yerfdog plastic seats.
The steering wheel placement is temperary until I get more metal to finish the cage. I figure, getting it running and playing with it a little would encourage me to finish it.

I have to say the 10hp motor has plenty of torque on the low end but the 3600 rpm governor only pushes me to 30 mph. I was plowin through a foot of water and only slowed down because the belt began to slip. I was covered in mud in only a few minutes hehe.

Heres a couple pics.