engines

[r_chez_08]

do all copy honda engines have crappy flywheels?

[Kenny_McCormic]

All the clones have flywheels that cant be trusted past 3600 RPM. I wouldnt trust a real honda past 5k or so.

[ZnsaneRyder]

Only 3600 RPM, I doubt it. I regularly hit 3600-4000 RPM with my Honda Clone, and it rides just fine. On higher speed runs, I take it to 4500-5000 when I feel the urge.

I've even been as high as 5200RPM and the only thing that happens is valve float, which sounds like loud ticking followed by backfiring. I'd worry more about the valves at high RPM.

Now if you are building a 6000RPM+ race engine, then sure, get a better and lighter billet flywheel, and you will gain some HP as well.

[Kenny_McCormic]

Its not about weight or timing or power, its about quality/safety. Have you the slighest idea how much stress in on the piece of CHINEESE CAST IRON when its spinning at 5200 RPM?

[JerryAssburger]

Not that I wish it on anyone, but just once can anyone IN THIS FORUM show proof that a Clone flywheel grenaded on them? Let's not go into the "I read it somewhere..." or, "..it happened to a buddy of mine...".

Kenny I'm not doubting you- I love your posts, info and advice, but this exploding flywheel thing....? I've had my clone up to 4700 rpm, limited by gearing and breathing and other physics,without hardly even a backfire. In that clone article (elsewhere in the Forum) the guy was winding it up to I believe 5500rpm for tests. As the results showed, the engine (even lightly modded) doesn't make much power over 5000 rpm anyway. I'd think a bigger (but related threat) would be the con rod snapping and causing the flywheel to sheer loose from the force. I wonder if that's how it happens?
Again Kenny, sorry about this- it's not directed at you, but I'd like for someone to back this up.

[Russ2251]

but just once can anyone IN THIS FORUM show proof that a Clone flywheel grenaded on them?Ditto...Or any flywheel on utility engines.
Good question Jerry.
Of coarse someone will post a pic they found on some other site with actual circumstances of said explosions unknown.
I'm talking about unmodified engines with governor removed.

[Kenny_McCormic]

There used to be a webpage with pics of a modded pulling lawn tractor that blew a flywheel. SCARY PICS! Unfourtunatly, AOL doesnt do hosting anymore.

I dont wory about most flywheels on stock motors. But this is china we are dealing with, eventually a bad batch will come out with slag in the metal or something along those lines. They cant keep industrial solvents out of baby fourmula, what makes you think they can build a flywheel?

Here is what happens when a indian flywheel engine with defective wheels overrevs. http://www.utterpower.com/flywheel_danger.htm

[r_chez_08]

do clones last as long, if you dont take them over 3600rpm

[Kenny_McCormic]

Should last longer than the honda, they have larger rings.

[r_chez_08]

oh!

which of these are best
1 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270319970353&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017)
2 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=380096384283&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=025)
3 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120357308445&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=002)
4 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130276293783&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003)
and why doesnt a 20mm shaft work? 3/4 inch is 21mm

[Russell ATV]

There used to be a webpage with pics of a modded pulling lawn tractor that blew a flywheel. SCARY PICS! Unfourtunatly, AOL doesnt do hosting anymore.

I dont wory about most flywheels on stock motors. But this is china we are dealing with, eventually a bad batch will come out with slag in the metal or something along those lines. They cant keep industrial solvents out of baby fourmula, what makes you think they can build a flywheel?

Here is what happens when a indian flywheel engine with defective wheels overrevs. http://www.utterpower.com/flywheel_danger.htm

Kenny,

Not sure if you know this, but no less than 70% of what you buy (and I mean everything) comes from China. Either the parts or just plain all of it. As for the Chinese Clone engines, the reason these engines are so good, is that they use the same build and process plans as the Honda did, that was also made in China. That is why they have these plans, Honda outsourced the parts.

I keep hearing about Chinese Aluminum, Chinese steel, Chinese cast iron. Most all metal comes from the US or Europe, and the Chinese do not get "the discount stuff". If you can fault Chinese manufacturing, it is often the lack of understanding of the product they are re-engineering (dog food), or some corners were cut (lead paint). Those issues come to bite them very fast.

Their FDA equivelent Drug Zar was put to death after he was convicted of taking some money to look the other way. It happened in about a week (trial and hanging). Consequences are dire and quick when the government/country is made to look bad. People used to think Japanese stuff "was crap" as well.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

[Kenny_McCormic]

and why doesnt a 20mm shaft work? 3/4 inch is 21mm

3/4" is 19.05mm, try finding a 20mm clutch. The money you end up spending would buy a genuine honda with a 3/4" crank!

[r_chez_08]

Oh, so the clutch would be too small

Only 20mm clutch on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350152119808&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=022)

[Kenny_McCormic]

Its in #219 chain, difficult to find chian.

[r_chez_08]

thats the only chain i can find
219 (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=219+chain&_sacat=See-All-Categories)
35 (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/?_nkw=35+chain+kart&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=35+chain&_osacat=0)
I think its because im in the uk

[BradenM]

Kenny,

...Chinese Aluminum, Chinese steel, Chinese cast iron. Most all metal comes from the US or Europe, and the Chinese do not get "the discount stuff"...
Hate to be a picky Bastard, but almost all of our exported iron goes to China. And thats mostly what they use. Our economy would die without China-we got a lotta iron.
Everybody forgets the great southern land, until there's a war. :ack2:

Braden.

[Kenny_McCormic]

Try the local hardware store, mine always suprises me at what they have.

[r_chez_08]

might as well just get 3/4 inch, so much easier, and same price!!!

[r_chez_08]

woop! i now have just bought this engine (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250360591082)

[jr dragster Tyler]

Howcome I cant see the item after bidding is over?

[r_chez_08]

dunno, heres some pics
probably because its a private listing, but i can even when not signed in

[r_chez_08]

hes posting on wednesday... should be here by the weekend!!!

[Russell ATV]

dunno, heres some pics
probably because its a private listing, but i can even when not signed in

Nice find. You may not realize it, but from all of my research (about 9 months worth) you have come accross the most powerful of the clones. At least on Paper. The motor torque on this motor is about 10% greater than the Lifan (Harbor Freight Engine), and about 5% better than the Box Stock or Yellow Motor.

I have torn this motor down, and cannot find any faults. I plan to put it head to head with a yellow motor on a twin Kart to really see if I can tell the difference.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

[r_chez_08]

thanks, it was only £70.
i thought it looked ok, and as the same engine buy it now is £90, i thought go 4 it!!!!

[ZnsaneRyder]

Good job on the engine purchase. Once you get it, post pics of it on your kart!

[r_chez_08]

will do, check out my other thread (http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2844) for progress... may be slightly slow building, as i only have about 4hrs a week

[r_chez_08]

would this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350152121224&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=022) clutch work well

[r_chez_08]

the engine has arrived!!!!! recommended to 4000rpm. would this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350152121224&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=022)clutch work fine. also could someone show me their throttle setup on a similar engine

[Russell ATV]

the engine has arrived!!!!! recommended to 4000rpm. would this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350152121224&ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=022)clutch work fine. also could someone show me their throttle setup on a similar engine

When trying to find a clutch, always try to get as few teeth as possible. For a 3/4" shaft, a #35 will have as few as 12 teeth. for a beefy #40, the best I have seen is 10 teeth.

The reason for few teeth on the engine, is that you want as small a sprocket on the rear that still gets you a 5:1 or a 6:1 ratio on a 10-13" wheel. So, a 60-72 teeth #35 sprocket will go nicely with a 12 tooth clutch.

Russ Barrow
Russell ATV

[r_chez_08]

why cant i use 15/70 or 15/80

[r_chez_08]

:censored: the shaft is 20mm.... oh well i can get the same clutch but 16t same price in 20mm:bannana:

[modelengineer]

You can use 15-80 but an 80 tooth sprocket is MASSIVE. Could even be larger than the wheels so it scrapes along the ground.

[robin]

get the shaft turned down to 3/4 probably much better option or get a bushing made to bring it up to 1 inch i could get the crank machined in work but i suspect the postage to here would cost allot if you donut mind me asking wear in the uk are you

[r_chez_08]

get the shaft turned down to 3/4 probably much better option or get a bushing made to bring it up to 1 inch i could get the crank machined in work but i suspect the postage to here would cost allot if you donut mind me asking wear in the uk are you
i can find a clutch for £27, so whats the need of tuning it down, when the 3/4 inch clutch is the same price, but it would be open for offers, so probably £25

i am in cornwall, and i will just make do with a 20mm clutch, as if i am going to get it tuned down, i could have just bought a 3/4 inch shaft engine for £20 more lol

[rubberducky]

Hey guys, we just bought a honda clone engine and a maxtorque clutch ... i.e. 20mm shaft 3/4 inch shaft... no big deal as you are taking the crankcase cover off to pull the governor out. Remove the crankshaft, get someone to lathe it back to 18.5mm (takes literally 2 mins) probably cost you $10 and your on your way. Clones are great because the fit the first rule of go karting - 1. CHEAP.

Cheers.

[rubberducky]

oh.. and yeah agree that china's manufacturing would be up to scratch when it comes to casting. I'd say they would have more manpower for quality control than most places :thumbsup:

However.. safety should not be taken lightly.. if there is doubt build a sheild between you and the engine? Some checka plate should be light enough and do the job..

[r_chez_08]

lol, yeah it would be easy, but as i said, whats the point as i can get a 20mm clutch

[ZnsaneRyder]

Just get the 20mm clutch then, since it's available. You are lucky, so get the one that fits to make it easy!

In in the US, so I can't get a 20mm clutch, but I wish I could get an engine cheaper because the shaft was 20mm instead of 19mm. I wouldn't mind lathing it down if it saved me money on the engine.

Good job on the cheap engine deal!

[r_chez_08]

Just get the 20mm clutch then, since it's available. You are lucky, so get the one that fits to make it easy!

exacly!!!!

[r_chez_08]

i was wondering how i would make a kill switch/ how they work.

[robin]

is ther not already one on the engine ?

[Kenny_McCormic]

Kill switch, ground coil wire, ignition stops.

[robin]

i remember my old brigs 2hp had a tab you had to push onto the spark plug got plenty of shocks of that thing

[modelengineer]

Haha, my 3.5hp tec. had one of those. When I first got it the vibration at certain revs would make it bounce into the spark plug. I was like "WHAT THE HELL, it keeps missfiring at certain RPM!"

Was also funny once it broke off and I kept driving around. Then the throttle got stuck wide open. I had to ground the plug with my hand for about 20 seconds until I rolled to a stop. Now THAT hurt! :oops: :roflol:

(No, I couldn't take the lead off. It was bloody tight on the plug and I was freaking out)

[Russ2251]

Could not reach choke either I guess.

[r_chez_08]

i want a second kill switch, one near me, as well as the one on the engine(i take it that the red turny switch is it) for safety reasons, just in case in emergency, i need to stop it.

[modelengineer]

Engine doesn't have choke, just a primer bulb

[Kaptain Krunch]

Engine doesn't have choke, just a primer bulb

I had an engine like that on a lawnmower...worked great but it did give a hell of a shock.

[thgrahamjr]

Honda GX200 series Clone engine, Blue. 2009 version

Displacement: 196cc
Cubic-Inch: 12.0
Horsepower: 6.5hp

- 2008 EPA legal
- 2009 Honda lawsuit compliant version

PLEASE NOTE: The GE65B is a OHV Engine designed for general purpose use. If used for recreational or Motorsports use, it is highly suggested that a after market SFI approved billet flywheel (ARC6619) and billet rod (ARC6270) be used for dependability and safety,

[Kenny_McCormic]

I have never had a problem with the tab style kills? But I dont dare touch it directly.

[BradenM]

I'm curious as to why people have "shocker" kill switches when it's easy to install a momentary switch to ground the sparkplug.

[modelengineer]

Wouldn't you need a REALLY heavy switch so that it doesn't arc internally?

[BradenM]

I'm goign to test that actually, should be interesting.

[r_chez_08]

i just want a kill switch near me to kill the engine in an emergency.... my kill switch is black with a square push button like robin's

[jr dragster Tyler]

Wouldn't you need a REALLY heavy switch so that it doesn't arc internally?

Yes you do. I was talking about it in another thread where we accidently hooked up the high voltage line to my dragster cockpit switch. It would idle but as soon as you tried to rev it up it would act as if it had a studder box (Retarder box) (Launch control) and it wouldnt rev up even at WOT. We run the low voltage wire to a normal switch and the high-voltage line to a cable operated mechanical frankenstine style switch so it doesnt arc.

[r_chez_08]

how would you set it up, im confused???

[jr dragster Tyler]

Just use the normall kill wire from the coil. Dont try to ground out the spark plug wire with a regular switch.

[r_chez_08]

what normal kill wire from the coil? i only have a switch

[Russ2251]

1 primary wire from coil connects to switch. Switch is then grounded to chassis. Flip switch (or push button) to off which grounds primary to chassis and...voila...engine stops.

[modelengineer]

If you already have a kill switch, just solder some wires on to the contacts of the switch, and run those wires to another switch where ever you want. Very easy to do.

[BradenM]

If you already have a kill switch, just solder some wires on to the contacts of the switch, and run those wires to another switch where ever you want. Very easy to do.

Took me about 5 hours. Because I bought a sketchy switch and it wouldnt allow the motor to start in either position, or cut it out in either position. Re-soldered and ran new lines about 5 times, then just went and bought a momentary switch.

All aboard the failtrain!