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bross1004
02-14-2013, 06:32 PM
So my 212cc predator engine is idling extremely high. Found the idle screw, adjusted it literally all the way out and nothing. Then I found that silver bar just in front of the carb with the two springs attached. It obviously controls the idle, I found that out by messing with it with my hand. Problem is, the springs came off somehow and I have no clue where to hook them back up so I can set the idle on this thing. Anyone have some close up pics of theirs so I can see how it hooks up?

cOw
02-14-2013, 06:41 PM
:useless: plzplzplz

Doc Sprocket
02-14-2013, 06:50 PM
What you have discovered, is the final components of the governor system. The governor controls not only the idle, but all operating speeds. I urge you to read up on governors, we have a lot of good info on this forum.

Toss up a pic of the components you're having trouble with, and we'll see what we can do.

As a related aside, the reason the idle screw did nothing for you is because the governor (or another factor) would not allow it to. Let's get the parts back together, then figure out the issue.

bross1004
02-14-2013, 07:08 PM
Here are some pics. Obviosly one end of the spring attaches to the little arm for the governer. Just don't know what to do with the other end. couldn't get my phone in there to take a good pic, but i'm sure you guys know what it is supposed to look like.

Doc Sprocket
02-14-2013, 07:24 PM
Okay- hook that little spring into the hole on the arm that it is close to. Now- take off the air filter box to expose the carb arm. The other ends of the rod and spring go there.

bross1004
02-14-2013, 07:37 PM
Luckily its only a couple bolts that hold the bottom part of the air filter box on. I think I might mess with it tonight then. Still gotta get a new clutch though. Spring is completely shot on this one. Tractor supply said they had one, but when I got there...... Well, there was not one to be found, just and empty hook and none in the back.

bross1004
02-15-2013, 04:57 PM
So I am still confused. The governer is pulled toward the carb by the springs. This keeps it wide open. Does anyone have a picture of what it should look like under the intake at the idle adjustment screw?

Fabroman
02-15-2013, 05:29 PM
Still gotta get a new clutch though. Spring is completely shot on this one. Tractor supply said they had one, but when I got there...... Well, there was not one to be found, just and empty hook and none in the back.

I used to get that a lot: There's a big difference between "do you sell them" & "do you have them". I've taken to starting off by determining the necessary item, then asking "how many do you have in stock?" Computerised shop management systems mean they will know exactly how many they have so, asking that simple little question can save you time & frustration.

Bluethunder3320
02-15-2013, 05:38 PM
had that happen to me at tractor supply. called them to ask if they had a specific welder since they're a really far drive for me. 5 mins later lady said they had it, and i asked twice if she was sure they had that specific welder in stock.. she said yes. got there and they didnt have it.

sorry i looked but cant find a picture

Doc Sprocket
02-15-2013, 05:47 PM
I have that stuff licked. All these places (especially discount joints like Tractor Supply, Princess Auto, HF, etc) are NOTORIOUS for this. They'll look on the computer, it says they have 3 units, you drive out there, and nothing!

Take heed folks. Call the store in question, and have them check inventory for stock#whatever. Do your homework- Look at catalogs or online, and make sure YOU know the stock/SKU#.

Anyways- If they say they have less than ,maybe 6 or 7 on hand, ask them to physicall check for you. This means putting you on hold, and going to look for it!!!

Why? Because the inventory system is not flawless. It is usually wrong by a few units. Sometimes things are miscounted. Then there's improperly performed returns and exchanges. Or an item is put in the WRONG place in the warehouse. Sometimes somebody has called and reserved one (I do this) and even though it shows in inventory, it is hidden and reserved.

Trust me, call, and have them look. My nearest Princess Auto is a 30 minute drive away. The next one is 45 minutes, and the third one is well over an hour. My closes Tractor Supply is 25 minutes away, and the other one is 40 minutes away. And I just ain't got it in me to drive that long for nothing...

Fabroman
02-15-2013, 05:50 PM
I had a very similar situation, tore the manager a new one & ended up getting a discount every time I went there after that :D

How did your situation end blue? Did you get any satisfaction out of them?

Great advide TS :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Doc Sprocket
02-15-2013, 05:54 PM
So I am still confused. The governer is pulled toward the carb by the springs. This keeps it wide open.

No- The governor is not pulled anywhere. The governor does the pulling and pushing. The springs alter tensions in the system. Does anyone have a picture of what it should look like under the intake at the idle adjustment screw?
Post a pic of what you have. I don't have a predator, but they all basically biol down to the same thing.

Cjhoward78
02-15-2013, 07:10 PM
So I am still confused. The governer is pulled toward the carb by the springs. This keeps it wide open. Does anyone have a picture of what it should look like under the intake at the idle adjustment screw?

3278432785
There u go boss:)

Cjhoward78
02-15-2013, 07:12 PM
32786
There's another
Let me know if u need more

bross1004
02-15-2013, 07:19 PM
Thanks guys..... I am so confused. Mine is hooked up the exact same way. But that little black piece that is moved by the throttle is wide open. I thought the springs would hold it against the screw, but it is the exact opposite.... Am I missing something? I will post pics as soon as possible to explain what I mean.

kendelrk
02-15-2013, 07:24 PM
the governor holds the engine at wide open/partially open until the engine fires, then it returns it back to idle, it does this by the centrifugal force generated from the governor gear riding upon the crankshaft inside the motor. it seems in your first batch of pics you didnt have the spring in the correct way. now that you do put it back together and start it and see if it idles any better. another problem i had with my predator was the throttle cable, if you pull the cable thru the cable stop to tight, the engine will not return to stock idle. my advice is to make sure to loosen the throttle arm a bit, make sure that the throttle cable isint to tight and see where it goes, if its all good you can take out the throttle stop screw for a few more mph. to test if your cable is at fault just dissconect it and see what you get.

Cjhoward78
02-15-2013, 07:26 PM
It's wide open until the engine fires, then it will push throttle closed against the black screw. At this point w engine running u turn black screw counterclockwise to reduce idle speed.

Too slow:( see above post good plan

Doc Sprocket
02-15-2013, 07:30 PM
Yes- make NO judgement about governor or throttle function with the engine off!

bross1004
02-15-2013, 07:32 PM
Ok, so picture number one is how it sits at "idle". As you can see, it is all the way open. The second picture shows me holding it shut like I believe it should be with the screw backed all the way out. Am I mistaken or is something not right here?

kendelrk
02-15-2013, 07:37 PM
see above 3 posts :thumbsup:

Doc Sprocket
02-15-2013, 07:38 PM
Again- Never mind what it does with the engine off. The governor is actuated centrifugally. It has to spin. Let's get the linkages correct, the adjustment correct, and fire the engine. If it still needs work, we'll work it.

bross1004
02-15-2013, 07:50 PM
Thanks guys. I just got the new clutch today, so I will throw it on there and see what happens. I appreciate all the info.

Bluethunder3320
02-16-2013, 12:29 AM
I had a very similar situation, tore the manager a new one & ended up getting a discount every time I went there after that :D

How did your situation end blue? Did you get any satisfaction out of them?

Great advide TS :thumbsup::thumbsup:

i went there to get a hobart handler 125 "mig ready" for $350 didnt have it so i got the next size up for $500. i guess it worked out okay because the regulator kit for the 125 would have been another $150, and it was included in the 140 amp version.

bross1004
02-16-2013, 11:23 AM
So...... seeing as you guys have practically built my go-kart via internet for me, I now have a new problem. lol. New clutch is smoking like a banshee. Wife got in with me last night, and I told her it probably wouldn't haul both of us, and it didn't... lol. So this morning I pull it out, jump in, and take off. Good to go. Stop, start going again, hear a clicking noise like the chain is slipping, but its not.. Then the clutch starts smoking. So I think maybe I'm too heavy, which is sad, cause I want to play on it. So I put my 8yr old daughter in it, granted, she is scared to push the gas pedal in all the way, which could cause the clutch to not fully engage, but even when I made her push it in, the cart started clicking and wouldn't move til I gave it a shove.... Any ideas?

slideways
02-16-2013, 11:36 AM
That hobart 125 at tsc doesnt have the provision for gas hookup anyway. So you ended up getting the right one if you want to weld with gas.


Sounds like the OP glazed the shoes on the clutch. You'll have to dissassemble it and sand the drum and shoes down and spray it all with brakleen and just pray it returns to life. Sounds like you need to regear to closer to a 6:1 or 7:1 ratio

bross1004
02-16-2013, 11:39 AM
slideways, I am at a 6:1 ratio. My clutch is a 10tooth and the sprocket is a 60 tooth.

slideways
02-16-2013, 11:40 AM
what size rear tires? how heavy are you?

bross1004
02-16-2013, 11:49 AM
I am about 175. I think the tires might be an issue. Just read in another post that the tires should only be about 2" bigger that the rear sprocket. Is this true? If it is, I am in trouble. My rear tires are about 18" tall. my sprocket is only about 10". From what I read, even an 80 tooth sprocket is only 13". I don't have access to different tires for the rear either. Wanting to use this thing around our property, so it needs a little bit of clearance. Not being used on a sidewalk.

slideways
02-16-2013, 11:54 AM
So you have a 12/72 setup? with 18" tall tires?

Doc Sprocket
02-16-2013, 11:58 AM
That's your issue. 6:1 is a good ballpark ratio for a traditional fun/yard kart. Tires tend to be quite a bit smaller, and with less weight on the machine. 2 adults and big meats are not going to cut it at 6:1.

bross1004
02-16-2013, 12:03 PM
12/72? no. I have a 10/60 setup. 10 teeth on the clutch and 60 teetch on the sproket. Unless I just don't know how to write it out. But I can count and that's what I counted. lol. I am attaching a picture so you can see the difference.

bross1004
02-16-2013, 12:04 PM
So should I get a jackshaft to change up the ratio, or up it to a 80th sprocket? I just don't see an 80 tooth being big enough.

slideways
02-16-2013, 12:04 PM
Yea i think you are in jackshaft territory. Or torque convertor territory.

slideways
02-16-2013, 12:06 PM
Now that you posted the pic, that kart already has the jackshaft plate and tube. Whoever sold it to you yanked the torque convertor setup and "cheapened it" to the clutch style.

12/72 and 10/60 still equals 6:1. 12/72 is more common because most #35 chain clutches have 12 teeth. But yours is a #40 chain.

You should easily be able to grab 2 bearings, a jackshaft and 2 sprockets and gear that thing down

bross1004
02-16-2013, 12:11 PM
2 bearings, a jackshaft, and 2 sprockets? Okay, I will start doing my research. How much should this cost roughly? I am searching go-kart part websites as we speak. Or type, if you wanna get technical.

bross1004
02-16-2013, 12:28 PM
How do I know what size to get? That tube for the jackshaft to go in is huge! it's an inch and 3/8ths inside to inside. I see that the jackshaft will be considerably cheaper than the cvt. And easier too. How do I know how many teeth I need on it's sprocket as well?

slideways
02-16-2013, 12:35 PM
search apskarting.com. They will be the cheapest. You should get the job done for 50-75 bucks. Compared to $200+ for a torque convertor. You'll need probably a 20t and a 9t sprocket to gear it down to about 8.66 according to my calculation.

slideways
02-16-2013, 12:36 PM
The hole is big because it is supposed to have bearings in it. 5/8" bore bearings usually for a 5/8" jackshaft.

bross1004
02-16-2013, 12:38 PM
So this means I am going to have to relocate the axle sprocket to the other side, correct?....Or do I?

bross1004
02-16-2013, 12:41 PM
slideaways, you think an 8.66 would get it low enough to cart me and the wife around? Together we weigh about 350. Just getting a feel for what I'm getting into. I don't need super fast top speed. Don't have more than 60 yads on my property before I'm dodging trees anyhow. More concerned with getting up to speed.

slideways
02-17-2013, 09:17 PM
You should be able to flip the clutch around or whatever makes the new sprockets line up with the jackshaft. I'm not sure what kind of hills you're looking to climb but from your other post it seems like the big motor and the TC setup is what you need. Unfortunately that's big money.

Otherwise i'd say 8.6 is a good figure. Should probably end up at about 18mph on top end just guessing.

Fabroman
02-18-2013, 12:34 AM
As I metioned in your other thread, I also think a CVT is the way to go. Get yourself a 30 series with a 9t sprocket & that should solve your problems...