Found the perfect welder! #7

[Kenny_McCormic]

Man, I should have videoed arc welding the spindles on my go cart.

[oscaryu1]

Well... those "better" welds you saw all glowed orange when I lifed my mask up. 4 seconds later, faded into like the rest of the welds. Dark and black.

[oscaryu1]

Man, I should have videoed arc welding the spindles on my go cart.

:mad2: Dangit... too bad :(

[AutoMX]

4 seconds later, faded into like the rest of the welds. Dark and black.

aww, such a shame, they could have been unique but they decided to conform :devil2:

its metal so it dissipates heat well, meaning you will only see molten metal while welding unless u use a gas torch to weld but thats completely different anyway. a good weld will glow orange for a couple secs after you've welded, and it should glow all the way through to the other side as well as around. if it doesnt, the metals aren't connected well meaning you've missed the whole point.
as a side note, the point isnt just to heat it up, thats just a byproduct and a good indicator of a decent weld. more heat will mean the metal you're welding will warp more, no good. so it's a balancing act.

one trick to check if the weld went in deep enough after the metal has cooled down (if you're using steel) is to flip the piece over to the back of the weld and look for the color change on the steel (if you heat up steel it gets a sort of rainbow effect with blue and purple and such, i think its partial oxidizing)

[oscaryu1]

I have a slight rainbow effect... on the lawnmower blades you can't see it (... rusted and lots of... yeah). But since I welded that new piece of metal, on the other side... there's a slight rainbow effect. Kinda like when you see oil mixed with water.

[oscaryu1]

Wait take that back... I can't tell :( I welded on the back too.

Speaking of that, is welding on the front side and back side (so pretty much all around) a good practice to do?

[Kenny_McCormic]

Welding both sides is a good idea unless the back is clearly melted together.

[AutoMX]

yea anything thicker than 1/8" with that welder will probably need both sides welded.

if you cant see the color changing, you didn't clean the parts :roflol:

[oscaryu1]

Well, you're correct there :D I was too lazy to grind off everything little thing, so I usually just welded it hapzardly without cleaning :D

So, considering the welds I've pictured above, if I welded both sides (on whatever project I'm doing), could I start welding bigger things?

[newrider3]

GET A GRINDER. There is no way to get good welds on a dirty, rusted or painted surface. It's only like $19 you'll lose.

[AutoMX]

"lose", more like spend, its not a waste of money.

start welding whatever you want, just keep in mind how replacable it is, and decide how essential the welds are. if it's gonna keep you safe at up to 80mph like the trike im building, thats way different than the 25mph kart running on grass. if a weld breaks who cares, but if my weld breaks and im on the freeway thats big trouble.

[oscaryu1]

newrider3 - I have a 6" bench grinder.

AutoMX - But how "good" am I to? Am I still too "beginnerish"? Need more practice? I'll do whatever it takes to have a safe ride, but I'd like some "real" experience, if you get what I mean.

[newrider3]

Practice is always good. I was at the same point with the quality of my welds right after I bought the welder too. They're really good now, and I've had the welder mabey 2 months.

[oscaryu1]

The lack of metal is my ultimate problem...

What type of tubing should I use to make a go kart outta?

AutoMX - You know full well none of my engines I have will escape without a modification :D

[AutoMX]

lol i lost what i was typing so here we go again:

Whats a safe weld? When it's strong enough for its purposes. An offroad kart will probably into get into a crash with another one, but maybe a tree or rock. Get a big hammer and if you cant break test welds, thats pretty much your answer. Cleanliness of welds isnt a requirements, but it happens that usually the strongest welds are also the cleanest and most efficient. Maybe the ugly weld can hold 800lb while the nice one 1500lb but either will probably be fine for your purposes.
If you wanna sell stuff you weld or weld professionally, or show your stuff in a car show or something, then the requirements change completely as people get very picky, but if its not about looks, just test the strength and if it passes youre good.
If you can break the weld, i guarantee your body and all the inertia of a moving kart will certainly be able to break it too, so test it very well.

As for where to buy steel and what to buy, it depends on the complexity of the frame. I stick to 1" square 16gauge tubing which is fine if the frame is triangulated and not just a ladder chassis but has some good vertical elements. the simpler the chassis, the thicker stuff needs to be. (i always trust the better design anyway, safety first)

[newrider3]

As long as there aren't any holes in the weld and you got some penetration, it can be as ugly as possible and still be strong.

[Roy Vanas]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/waistofhumanspace/machineshop/th_100_1198.jpg (http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/waistofhumanspace/machineshop/?action=view&current=100_1198.flv)
You guessed it im working @ a machine shop that can do about anything!...theres more machines here then i can use, stop by any time we'll gas up some toys!

[oscaryu1]

lol i lost what i was typing so here we go again:

Whats a safe weld? When it's strong enough for its purposes. An offroad kart will probably into get into a crash with another one, but maybe a tree or rock. Get a big hammer and if you cant break test welds, thats pretty much your answer. Cleanliness of welds isnt a requirements, but it happens that usually the strongest welds are also the cleanest and most efficient. Maybe the ugly weld can hold 800lb while the nice one 1500lb but either will probably be fine for your purposes.
If you wanna sell stuff you weld or weld professionally, or show your stuff in a car show or something, then the requirements change completely as people get very picky, but if its not about looks, just test the strength and if it passes youre good.
If you can break the weld, i guarantee your body and all the inertia of a moving kart will certainly be able to break it too, so test it very well.

As for where to buy steel and what to buy, it depends on the complexity of the frame. I stick to 1" square 16gauge tubing which is fine if the frame is triangulated and not just a ladder chassis but has some good vertical elements. the simpler the chassis, the thicker stuff needs to be. (i always trust the better design anyway, safety first)

Well... the first time's I've welded, they all broke within 10 hits with an average worker's hammer. Ever since, it was either no breaking (35+ hits on everything before giving up)...

newrider - Gotcha. I'll buy some cheap steel and start welding up parts that aren't really important (front bumpers, ect ect)

Nice shop Roy!

[AutoMX]

If it doesnt break with some strong smacks with something like a sledgehammer, and you can jump on it and nothing goes wrong, then it should be fine. after all, it's just a kart, for the most part it wont need to deal with big impacts.

[oscaryu1]

*quickly pushes ramp into garage* :D

Sledgehammer... Eh, will a regular hammer do OK?

[AutoMX]

well the sledgehammer is usually about 3x to 4x the weight thust that much more energy. if the hammer is big enough then youre fine, or use cinder blocks or rocks or whatever you have thats gonna test it well..

[jr dragster Tyler]

Seriosly guys. You should be more confident in your welds. No need to smash with a hammer & rocks. If you have to test your welds like that, then you probably doughbt them in the first place.

[oscaryu1]

Well.. I'm not a professional welder like *ahem* you *ahem* :D

[crazycart]

(front bumpers, ect ect)


*AHEM* ETC

:thumbsup:

[oscaryu1]

:)

Well, I guess that's where I'll start off :)

[Roy Vanas]

fix it then wreck it,fix it then wreck it,fix it then wreck it,fix it then wreck it, is how ive learned!:cheers2:

[Kenny_McCormic]

fix it then wreck it,fix it then wreck it,fix it then wreck it,fix it then wreck it, is how ive learned!:cheers2:

Never ending circle of repair.

[AutoMX]

Seriosly guys. You should be more confident in your welds. No need to smash with a hammer & rocks. If you have to test your welds like that, then you probably doughbt them in the first place.

well easy to say but the guy is looking online for help, obviously no one around to help him locally. if he guesses wrong and figures that its strong enough and it falls apart on a bump, it could be alot worse than road rash on the rear end. if he makes a few test welds, tests them to destruction, then its easy to know just how strong they really are. ive made ugly welds that still hold a 1200lb trailer together, and that was almost 2 years ago.

[oscaryu1]

well easy to say but the guy is looking online for help, obviously no one around to help him locally. if he guesses wrong and figures that its strong enough and it falls apart on a bump, it could be alot worse than road rash on the rear end. if he makes a few test welds, tests them to destruction, then its easy to know just how strong they really are. ive made ugly welds that still hold a 1200lb trailer together, and that was almost 2 years ago.

:eek:

Well... anyone know how much a cheap grinder is at Home Depot?

[AutoMX]

im gonna guess $45ish

[oscaryu1]

Dang! Well, time to look up some local HF's.

What else should I need other than metal, a grinder, and a welder?

[kibble]

about $16-20 bux for the orange HF one depending on wether it's on sale or not. I'm telling you, it works really well and is better than the cheaper blue one. I've used mine extensively without any problems.

[oscaryu1]

Got it. Late this week or early next, mom'll have some time and we can goes shopping :p

Need to pick up a new feeler gauge anyways. Mine's rusted (darn rain) and... somewhere in the sea of tools.

[Roy Vanas]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/waistofhumanspace/th_100_1871-2.jpg (http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/waistofhumanspace/100_1871-2.jpg)

if you use your tools enough you will keep the oil on them,

[Kenny_McCormic]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/waistofhumanspace/th_100_1871-2.jpg (http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/waistofhumanspace/100_1871-2.jpg)

if you use your tools enough you will keep the oil on them,

That pic makes you look like one crazy mofo.

[oscaryu1]

Oil... haha, no matter how crazy I am about oil, I prefer them dry :p

[Kenny_McCormic]

Oil... haha, no matter how crazy I am about oil, I prefer them dry :p

Nope always lube your stuff(tools, guns, knives, engines, etc), lube is mans best friend. Just this afternoon I oiled and greases the :censored: out of a gun I inherited.

[kibble]

lube is mans best friend.

Ain't that the truth... :arf:

[oscaryu1]

Lube in engines only :p :D

[jr dragster Tyler]

Lube in engines only :p :D

Ohh so no lube in the CV joints or the diff or the tranny? lol Just kidding.

[Kenny_McCormic]

Ohh so no lube in the CV joints or the diff or the tranny? lol Just kidding.

And dont ever forget to regularly grease and inspect all your ball joints unless you want you front end coming apart on the highway.

[oscaryu1]

Hehe, how many miles are we overdue? :p

Speaking of CV joints, the 88' Camry went 50,000 miles + on a split CV boot. Found out when removing driveaxles!

[kibble]

The front right side of my car just started making a clanking sound coming from the wheel when I turn or go a certain speed. I think my axle and cv's need replacement. :mad2:

[oscaryu1]

Haha, let's just say, when removing the driveaxles, the Haynes manual SUCKED :D

[oscaryu1]

Woot, went out and bought some "flat" square tubing...

2 .8mm/.035" "Innershield" "No gas flux cored" welding wire :)

And a Ryobi 4 1/2" Angle Grinder ($29.97) and 6 metal cut off circle things :p

I can weld zinc plated things, correct? Just don't breathe the fumes?

[newrider3]

Where did you get the tubing? I went to a local steel supplier today and got two 12 foot pieces of 1/8" wall 1" square tube, cost almost $62.:furious2:

[AutoMX]

lol wow the metal supply place i went to this weekend sells 10 foot 1" square tube (16 gauge) for $15 each (that was $10, less than a year ago by the way, crazy)

a home depot type place is NOT gonna be cheap but you can probably swallow the extra cost if its just 1 piece. any more and the stuff is gonna burn your wallet.

china is killing steel prices. they buy steel from us and resell it to us at many times the price in either tubing or in cheap goods like machinery or motors. sure the clone motors are cheap, but you pay many times the difference in steel and other materials.

buy lincoln or other made-in-USA welding wire, not only is is helping the US but it's 1/3 cheaper then HF's stupid chinese wire. ($10 compared to HF' $15)

[oscaryu1]

Tubing? I dunno :p It was like 3-4 feet for... $6 or $8?

Home Depot o' course. Harbor Freight is a long way from here (1 hr drive) and have no idea where Lowes is.

Heh, I heard HF welding wire is crappy. I'll stick with Lincoln's Innershield :)

Planning to use the grinder and cut the frame in half, cut the square tubing into 1ft. lengths and extend the frame (it's TINY!)..

Then work on the motor mounts.

[fluxcored]

Oscar, grind off as much of the zinc layer - close to the weld - as you can and weld in an open ventilated area. I nearly died of zinc fever a few years back.

[kibble]

Technically, it's not only the zinc fumes you shouldn't be breathing in. You shouldn't breathe in any fumes at all, but zinc is pretty bad stuff. :sifone:

[AutoMX]

to stretch a frame, dont just cut it off at a 90 degree angle, overlap the pieces by cutting maybe 2" down the length of the tubes on either side (so the bottom leftover U shape locks together with the top upside down U shape) then weld all the seams. the result should be like 2 of the L shaped tetris pieces locking together.

[Kenny_McCormic]

You can weld zinc plated stuff, just do it with a fan pulling all the fumes away form you on its highest speed.

[oscaryu1]

Kk, fan, grind... ect.

Well, I think I've found out who I was! :D

"Messy but [I think] strong".

I welded the minibike frame today. Very messy. But it wouldn't break when I hopped up n' down on it.

[sayre315]

when welding would it be alright to have the fan blowing torwards you
because it gets REALY HOT here in the summer and i usally have a fan aming at me

[Kenny_McCormic]

when welding would it be alright to have the fan blowing torwards you
because it gets REALY HOT here in the summer and i usally have a fan aming at me

Na, without a fan you get hot after a few minutes along with the welder, its like a self regulating duty cycle.

[oscaryu1]

Well, I use a fan, for my sake and the welder's sake :)

[AutoMX]

nothing wrong with it as long as you stand in front of the fumes, not downwind (obviously). i instinctively dont breath while welding and that helps keep me from going welder-happy and blowing it up i think. and it keeps me cancer free lol

[oscaryu1]

Hmm... Good advice. I'll try not to breathe any fumes :)

[sayre315]

now all i need is a welder :)

[AutoMX]

not really, just rub the metal together fast enough and it will just fuse, welders are for lazy people. :thumbsup: