LawnBoy Engine dismantling, cleanup and rebuild #2

[kibble]

Ok, well I ended up ordering the stuff from the same place you did. I'll re-assemble the rest of the engine while I wait for that to arrive. in the mean time, I'll make a temporary "gasket" out of something, maybe some cork I have, just to keep dust from getting in there. I won't run it though until I get the permatex.

Man, I almost forgot, I still need some fuel line.

[Russ2251]

I still need some fuel line.Come on over. I'll give you some of mine. Bring some women. I'll supply the Hendrix.

[jr dragster Tyler]

Come on over. I'll give you some of mine. Bring some women. I'll supply the Hendrix.
What is Hendrix?

[kibble]

Bring some women. I'll supply the Hendrix.

I don't think they'd fit in the suitcase. Will inflatable do?

[Russ2251]

Will inflatable do?BYOP (Bring Your Own Pump).
What is Hendrix?Sounds like a Jeopardy answer!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix
Buy his first album, "Are You Experienced". Put on track #10 and crank up amplifier as high as it will go.
I guarantee you'll never listen to rap music again.

[crazycart]

LOL silly youngin's

[kibble]

BYOP (Bring Your Own Pump).
Sounds like a Jeopardy answer!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimi_Hendrix
Buy his first album, "Are You Experienced". Put on track #10 and crank up amplifier as high as it will go.
I guarantee you'll never listen to rap music again.

According to the Wikipedia Studio Albums information at the bottom, there is no track 10.:confused:

[Russ2251]

This is actually a re-release with added tracks.

[Russ2251]

Just a reminder. When ready to assemble engine, use new seals.
If old ones are used, leaks may develop and affect performance.
Would also create a lean situation that cannot be adjusted out.

[Magice]

That's a reallly good looking engine. Nice job cleaning it up.

[Kenny_McCormic]

LOL I cant believe somebody didnt know what/who Hendrix is.

[Russ2251]

Forgive him. He's young.
If I knew his address, I'd send it to him.

[jr dragster Tyler]

Ohh I love his songs I just had a brain fart for a second.

[JerryAssburger]

...better explain what "Albums" are, too!

[kibble]

Just a reminder. When ready to assemble engine, use new seals.
If old ones are used, leaks may develop and affect performance.
Would also create a lean situation that cannot be adjusted out.

Oh, great, I was hoping you wouldn't say that... LOL
I'm guessing you know a place to get them?

...better explain what "Albums" are, too!

Or 33's/45's/78's..... LOL!!

[kibble]

That's a reallly good looking engine. Nice job cleaning it up.

Thanks! But I couldn't have done it without some guidance from the LB mastah himself; Rust-E!

I can't wait to get this thing up and running! I have *almost* everything I need for it. I'll be testing it out on my kart when I have it completed.

[Magice]

Which kart are you gonna run it on?

[Russ2251]

I'm guessing you know a place to get them?
I've ordered them here:
http://www.partsandservice.com/
Problem is, they are very slow to deliver. Try getting them locally. Have part numbers handy. Let fingers do the walking.

[kibble]

Which kart are you gonna run it on?

I'm gonna put it on the "kibble kart" I finished a few months ago. I don't have any other ones to try it on.

I've ordered them here:
http://www.partsandservice.com/
Problem is, they are very slow to deliver. Try getting them locally. Have part numbers handy. Let fingers do the walking.

Ok, I'll try looking locally.

[kibble]

Hey, Russ, check it out. I found this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Lawn-Boy-Crankshaft-OIL-SEAL-611396-605020-602632_W0QQitemZ380042990305QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid =p3286.m20.l1116

I bought two complete sets.

I called one of the locals and they don't have them, said they'd have to order them. Not too many other locals that didn't require driving a bit to so I just bought those on ebay.

[Russ2251]

Appears to be ok as long as it is genuine article.
Should be completely rubberized.
Anyway, that is flywheel seal. What about pto seal?

[Russ2251]

By the by, Permatex 300 failed immediately. One loop of parking lot and blew through.
I'm going to try again. Two more sealants to test after this.
Extremely frustrating.
There is an answer to this dilemma, and I will find it.

[kibble]

Supposedly the don't have separate seals anymore. From what I found out, the 611396 replaces the 605020 and is used for both ends. UNLESS I looked at the wrong diagram... Which is highly likely. Please don't tell me I need another seal.... :mad2:

[kibble]

By the by, Permatex 300 failed immediately. One loop of parking lot and blew through.
I'm going to try again. Two more sealants to test after this.
Extremely frustrating.
There is an answer to this dilemma, and I will find it.

Well, that's great news... :ack2:

Perhaps the answer is "original gasket"?

[Russ2251]

If all else fails, worst case is going back to original gasket.
Luckily, I have 2 on hand.
Please don't tell me I need another seal....Geez...left is PTO side, right is flywheel side. You can keep the quarter.
Check your documentation.
DuraForce is only Lawn-Boy engine that uses 2 different size seals.
How did you miss this?:confused::ack2::roflol::toetap05::2guns: :rolleyes3::huh:
There is a retaining snap ring associated with larger seal. I hope you did not lose it!!!

[kibble]

Geez...left is PTO side, right is flywheel side. You can keep the quarter.
Check your documentation.
DuraForce is only Lawn-Boy engine that uses 2 different size seals.
How did you miss this?
There is a retaining snap ring associated with larger seal. I hope you did not lose it!!!

I didn't have the seals with me at work and I didn't remember what they looked like. I did clean them up pretty good though after removing them. I have the service manual with me but it doesn't have the part numbers or anything and it didn't show the seals, it just said to replace them. So I tried doing some searching and all I could come up with was that 611396 part number.

No, I did not lose the retaining snap ring. I cleaned that up too.

[Russ2251]

Correct seal part number is 94-5764.:cornut:
Get a couple of them, just in case.

[Russ2251]

I noticed that blowout of head sealant always occurred (3 times w/different sealants) in general area of (above) exhaust port. This was too coincidental to be believed.
I decided to lap head on a flat surface using valve grinding compound to determine if contacting surface was/was not uniform. It was not. See pic.
I took pic and then continued to lap head until 'low spot' faded away. Took about 40 minutes to complete the job by hand.
Did the same thing on block and found no low or high spots.
Tomorrow I will re-seal, re-torque, re-test.
I think I've nailed it.

[kibble]

Hmmmm... Interesting! So maybe the 300 will work after all?

Let me know! I'm expecting to get all the stuff I need soon.

[Russ2251]

maybe the 300 will work after all?Hopefully...
I could kick myself for not looking into this sooner. I do know better.
I'm thinking of going back to Hylomar, which should've worked in the 1st place.
*"A chain is no stronger than it's weakest link" applies here.
Hopefully, I have eliminated the weakness.

*William James 1842-1910

[kibble]

By hylomar, are you talking about the 515 stuff?

[Russ2251]

Post #42 (Kibble post #47)
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1093&page=3&highlight=Lawn+Boy+engine

Posts #1 through 9
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1494&highlight=Hylomar

[Kenny_McCormic]

You were the one telling me it would only work with a perfectly flat head! Well Im no better, put a mower engine together today AND FORGOT TO HOOK UP THE KILL WIRE!!!

[Russ2251]

You were the one telling me it would only work with a perfectly flat head!Uhhh...well uhh...yes. I admit it. I :furious2:up. I made an assumption and you know how that goes.

[2or3wheels]

You were the one telling me it would only work with a perfectly flat head! Well Im no better, put a mower engine together today AND FORGOT TO HOOK UP THE KILL WIRE!!!

Ive done that, if you can touch the wire to the block, or just choke it fully, not a good way to stop it but it gets the job done.

[jr dragster Tyler]

Ive done that, if you can touch the wire to the block, or just choke it fully, not a good way to stop it but it gets the job done.

Wash down...

[Kenny_McCormic]

Wash down...

yea, not good.

[Kenny_McCormic]

Ive done that, if you can touch the wire to the block.

No, I forgot to attach the kill wire to the coil before replacing the blower shroud.:oops: Mower cut great and quit burning oil but when i flip the key to off it kept running, ended up pulling the plug wire off and ripped the connector off the wire.:oops:

Turns out the wiring harness that attached to the fuel shutoff noid I removed (IDK what its for but its been replaced with a bolt cause it leaked and caused problems) also has the engine shut off wire on it and I didnt notice :oops: when I tore down the engine to fix the blown head gasket.

[kibble]

Post #42 (Kibble post #47)
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1093&page=3&highlight=Lawn+Boy+engine

Posts #1 through 9
http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1494&highlight=Hylomar

Oh, ok. I forgot about those threads.

I'll give the 300 stuff a shot and see how it holds up for me. If the same thing happens that happened to you, I'll check for uniformity, or lack thereof, of the head. I should be receiving all of that stuff soon. Maybe I'll be able to do some work to it this weekend.

[Russ2251]

I finished re-assembling but decided to let it cure overnight before cranking it up. I have a gut feeling it'll be just fine.

[Russ2251]

I'll give the 300 stuff a shot and see how it holds up for me. If the same thing happens that happened to you, I'll check for uniformityWill be much easier to do this when engine is disassembled.
Trust me.
Available here:
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm

[kibble]

:censored: more :censored: to get! I tried to get it but it said they were sold out. Can't I just get lapping stuff at the auto store that'll do the same thing?

Oh, today I went to a power equipment rental place out a ways from where I live, it's the first place I shoulda gone to begin with! They have use parts and stuff up the wazoo! When I explained to the lady that I had a LB engine I was fixing up to use on my kart, she said: "Oh! I have a go kart too!" and took me around the lot and showed me what she had. she was running a Tecumseh motor on a small kart with a t.c. She says she gets up to about 45mph.

Anyway, I was gonna take the carb I have for the pressure washer and see if she can find me a similar sized, adjustable one.

I received the 300 today and the fuel line. I'm still waiting on the seals and now that you told me I should lap it, I have to get something to do it with too. Oh, and I took the HL239B apart because I had a feeling it was dirty inside...it was. So I'm gonna have to clean that too. :mad2:

[Russ2251]

When I explained to the lady...Was she good lookin'? If so, give me her number.
Can't I just get lapping stuff at the auto store that'll do the same thing? Yes, I was just pointing out what I use. 320 grit is what works, so shoot for that.

[kibble]

Was she good lookin'?

NO!!!!! :ack2: :ack2: :ack2: But she IS nice!

Ok, I'll go look for some compound.

[Russ2251]

Took a 40 minute run today with zero head leakage. Very promising. I could smell excess Permatex '300' burning off.
Smells like a cross between rotting slug carcasses and a chocolate latté.
Yum...I think I'll cook some up and make soup.
Care to join me ladies?

[kibble]

Smells like a cross between rotting slug carcasses and a chocolate latté.
Yum...I think I'll cook some up and make soup.
Care to join me ladies?

:drool5: :drool5: :drool5:

I got the lapping compound today. I'll be lapping the head this weekend hopefully and putting the thing back together! :wai: I'm still waiting on the PTO side oil seal, however. :(

Oh yeah, and I did notice on the repair manual that it says to use some stuff on the oil seal and make sure there's no oil in it when you put it in to avoid blowing out the seal. What do you recommend?

[Russ2251]

What do you recommend?Do exactly what they say. No probs here.

[kibble]

That's just the thing, it doesn't name anything, it just says: "Use some type of seal protector to prevent damage to
the seal lip and slide the seal down the crankshaft."

Can I just put a thin coating of some lubricant on the shaft to prevent it from being damaged on the way in? there's nothing much on the shaft to damage it in the first place.

I'm wondering if you have a different manual than I have. :confused:

[Russ2251]

I'm wondering if you have a different manual than I have.No different. Only 1 manual which covers DuraForce (Lawn-Boy) and R*Tek (Briggs & Stratton).
Can I just put a thin coating of some lubricant on the shaft to prevent it from being damaged on the way in?Yes, any oil will do.

About seals:
On older model engines (non DuraForce) it was OK to press in seals once crankcase was assembled.
This is NOT OK on DuraForce. Seals should be assembled onto shaft and then nestled into crankcase half as shown in figure #85. Eyeball seals to make sure they are straight and not canted or tilted in seal bore. This is stated in manual and is important.
Also, I smear a very thin coat of Loctite #515 around circumference of seals.
I do this because we are forcing these engines to 'jump through hoops' as opposed to cutting grass. I have no doubt that crankcase pressures are above the grass cutting norm.

[Russ2251]

Mr. Kibble:
Out of curiosity, what is top ring shape (cross section)? Are rings pinned?

[newrider3]

Oh, today I went to a power equipment rental place out a ways from where I live, it's the first place I shoulda gone to begin with! They have use parts and stuff up the wazoo!
Equipment rental shops FTW. My local has an entire shop filled with old engines and machines, mostly Hondas and I/C Briggs. Got my project engine from them for about $30.

[kibble]

The top ring is the semi-keystone one. Yes I put it in correctly. :arf:

By pinned, you mean they have that area for the pin on the piston? If so, yes.

[kibble]

Equipment rental shops FTW. My local has an entire shop filled with old engines and machines, mostly Hondas and I/C Briggs. Got my project engine from them for about $30.

Sweet!

[Russ2251]

The top ring is the semi-keystone one. Yes I put it in correctly.I asked because one of my engines has standard ring and other is semi-keystone. All else are identical between the 2 engines.

[kibble]

Some updated pics of stuff I did this weekend. I applied the super 300 to the head and torqued it to specs. Cleaned the carb, I took several "before/after" pics. The one on the left is what the one on the right looked like before I cleaned it. Then I have several pics of what the air cleaner carb and crankcase look like assembled. I received the PTO side oil seal today so I'll be putting the rest of it together soon. :wai:

[Russ2251]

Excellent...Nice work señor Kibble. You get the Golden Piston Ring.
Any high/low spots on head sealing surfaces that you could detect?

[kibble]

You know, oddly enough, the area around the head that was on the same side as the exhaust seemed to be the most uneven. I used the compound stuff until it seemed to be pretty even all throughout. I put a light coat of the super 300 with the brush with the bristles going all in one direction, then I went over it in the opposite direction to make a bit of a crosshatch pattern on the material to hopefully help spread it out evenly.

[Russ2251]

oddly enough, the area around the head that was on the same side as the exhaust seemed to be the most uneven.Now I'm very curious as to condition of my 2nd DuraForce as well as both Briggs 2 cycles (R*Tek).
Would be really bizarre if all these engines exhibited this same low (uneven) spot.
Can't expect engine manufacturers to lap cylinders and heads as it would not be cost effective.
Gaskets are cheap...lapping is much more expensive by comparison.

[kibble]

No doubt!

I put together the cylinder and crankcase. It's almost ready to roll!!!

[Russ2251]

Cool
:cheers2: