Camber, caster, Ackermann

[stratguy44]

Caster, Camber, Toe

I really enjoyed reading this on the subject. http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

 

[2manytoys]

camber, caster, toe in

New to this, find this very informative. I recently restored a wrecked manco, for my sons birthday, front end was a mess,
after many fixes and refixes, and mods it doesn't steer to bad
corners great to the left skids a little to the right, it has about 10 degrees pos caster and 3 degrees neg camber at static with positive ackerman. Should I toe in or out? And what would have a bigger affect on the skidding in the turns?

 

[landuse]

New to this, find this very informative. I recently restored a wrecked manco, for my sons birthday, front end was a mess,
after many fixes and refixes, and mods it doesn't steer to bad
corners great to the left skids a little to the right, it has about 10 degrees pos caster and 3 degrees neg camber at static with positive ackerman. Should I toe in or out? And what would have a bigger affect on the skidding in the turns?

Welcome to the forum. Start a new thread for yourself in the General Discussion area. You will get more response that way

 

[2manytoys]

Thanks

 

[Aladinbama]

10* Positive Caster (kingpin tilted back at the top.)
0* Camber (Steering straight ahead, wheels are perpendicular to the road surface).
0*KPI (Kingpins are not tilted left or right)
Full and proper application of the Ackermann Principle (In a turn, inside tire follows tighter radius than outside tire).

As you mention, I am one of the many who don't really want to understand the dynamics of all this (in too much depth anyway) and just want to get my kart to steer correctly. I will be building a cart from scratch and it will have forward positioned spindle connections (with stock, store bought square spindles), I have everyhting understood from the above settings, including possibly setting the kingpin angle 10 degrees in on top, but how do I set the Ackermann? (or can I with forward pointed spindles) Oh, and this will be on a rigid frame cart - no suspension.
As stated, I won't be racing or anything. Probably will never go above 35 or so, but I would like everything as set as possible without spending too much $$$. Thanks!

 

[OzFab]

You can achieve ackermann with forward facing arms, but you may run into clearance issues between the end of the arm & the wheel. Double check before you start!

It's much easier with rear facing arms as the arms will be angling away from the wheels.

Read this post & see if it helps

 

[Aladinbama]

You can achieve ackermann with forward facing arms, but you may run into clearance issues between the end of the arm & the wheel. Double check before you start!
It's much easier with rear facing arms as the arms will be angling away from the wheels.
Read this post & see if it helps

I completely understand the rear facing spindle arm approach. Sounds piece of cakeish even. My build doesn't have room for rear facing arms (at least how I see it now). How do I address Ackermann in forward facing arms? Are my arms literally going to be pointing outward (as to continue the line through the kingpin - might need those 6" spindles after all)?

 

[jamyers]

...How do I address Ackermann in forward facing arms? Are my arms literally going to be pointing outward (as to continue the line through the kingpin - might need those 6" spindles after all)?

With forward-facing arms, they can point inward no problem. To get ackermann, the inner ends of the tie-rods need to cross over each other at the steering shaft. To do that, put one on the top of the steering-shaft arm, and the other on the bottom - that way they're not in each other's way and they still "cross" each other.

 

[Jonester 123]

Hi guys, great information on how to get steering setup right. Will be getting started on mine real soon when frame is done.

 

[ty ferguson]

Help! looking for spindles for a manco redfox lxt !!

All the web sites that carry manco kart parts do not carry this spindle for this kart as it has been discontinued. What can i use that will fit this kart? Also need after market spindles for a yerfdog 3020 kart to correct the steering problem. Any thoughts will help.
Thanks!

 

[OzFab]

First up, your best option is to move your post to a new thread, it'll get more positive attention

 

[tom240]

just finished building my go kart and it handles like piss (didn't pay much attention to steering geometry first up) read the whole thread and realised i need to do some modifications...

i have forward facing arms that give me reverse Ackerman. to alter this i need to angle them outwards but then they will contact the wheel. i haven't seen anyone make this suggestion before but i propose having a curved steering arm to clear the wheel, as long as the bolt hole for the tie rod is in the right place (on the line between centre of rear axle and the kingpin) it should work

or should i just suck it up and redesign the front end with rear facing steering arms and caster and KPI and all that jazz

 

[Doc Sprocket]

You certainly could bring those arms out and around the wheels. Another option that may be worth exploring is to fab a new pitman arm, with 2 hole in it instead of 1. Those two holes would have to be an inch or two apart. Then- CROSS the tie rods. Left hole goes to right steering arm, right hole to left. Problem being, I (and nobody else here) has yet worked out the formula to determine how far apart those two holes have to be, based on the other factors, so it's a crapshoot. Get it right, and it WILL work. Your third option is indeed to rework things with rearward arms.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[OzFab]

Problem being, I (and nobody else here) has yet worked out the formula to determine how far apart those two holes have to be

I heard somewhere that McCullough go karts have a 14° crossover angle. Now, converting that to measurements is the difficult part because the distance between the two holes will depend on how far the holes are from the pivot point...

 

[k-man1081]

First pic, Rchez. At rest there is Zero camber. The angles all combine to CREATE camber as the wheels are steered.

Gokart14- Back axle? You been reading this thread? Front axle! We're talking about steering geometry!

EDIT- Here's my crappy 5 minute Paint drawing of it...

Is that if you're going with a 10degree camber? Basically, my question is: if I want 5degrees of camber, would that angle be at 85degrees?

Also, I noticed that the thread starter posted a picture of the rear end on his kart, and noticed that he had a 3rd rear axle bearing mounted in the middle of the kart. Is that better for weight distribution in the rear end, and how hard is it to line up the 3 bearing units to match each other so that the axle goes straight in and isn't misaligned?

 

[OzFab]

Is that if you're going with a 10degree camber? Basically, my question is: if I want 5degrees of camber, would that angle be at 85degrees?

Technically, that is correct. Steering measurements are taken from a perpendicular or vertical plane, not a horizontal plane so, 90° from the horizontal plane becomes 0° & +5° would be -85° from the horizintal plane...

Also, I noticed that the thread starter posted a picture of the rear end on his kart, and noticed that he had a 3rd rear axle bearing mounted in the middle of the kart. Is that better for weight distribution in the rear end, and how hard is it to line up the 3 bearing units to match each other so that the axle goes straight in and isn't misaligned?

It's more to do with reducing flex & bending...

The only way to mount a third bearing is to mount the centre bearing last with the axle in place in the outer two bearings...

 

[k-man1081]

Thanks! I just realized that I will most likely be going -5°, so that would be 95°, correct?

Oh, ok. Will mounting a center bearing be safer, on the parts/components, for off-road applications?

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

Quick question, I plan on building the front of my arachnid without offset control arms, do I need caster? main use probably would be off-roading, couple quick rips up the street etc.... lol

 

[OzFab]

For those who are not sure what you're referring to, can you add a little more detail about offset control arms?

On your monster, I would say you definitely need caster...

 

[Yamaha440SSKart]

like with the control arm plans that I have the top portion of the mounts sit about 1/2" back further from the front off the block where the bottom mount location sits at the front, the whole idea is to avoid using heim joints